Info: stock intake vs. S&B
- Thread starter ZeroGravity58
- Start date
Michael or anyone else
ever thought about useing a big rig air filter?
and what type of filter do you like to use the 1618c?
ever thought about useing a big rig air filter?
and what type of filter do you like to use the 1618c?
If it helps or not, I love my S&B, lottsa turbo whine!
Turbo whine makes my "sticker peck out" or vice-versa
:rofl:
Turbo whine makes my "sticker peck out" or vice-versa
:rofl:
somewhere between 35-39 square feet of filtration media. The "other guys" won't make it to the bed.
Ive noticed some of the big rig filters give a cfm rating,Does the one in the pic allow less air than say a S&B or does it just filter better?
Turbo whine makes my "sticker peck out" or vice-versa
:rofl:
Here's the thing, nobody seems to advertise this stuff with any real validity. If something comes with a cfm rating, that is only valid if it comes with a pressure drop number. Because lets face it, I can flow Niagra Falls through a straw, but if I don't know what the pressure drop is, I don't know what kind of cost is involved to get it through.
I believe SB, KN, AMSOIL, and many others, all have ISO tests for them saying that it "flows better".. That means for the same cfm, there is less pressure drop...and that is true...those claims are generally good. BUT ONLY when the element is new. Ever here of these companies report on the pressure drop after 5000 miles of driving? You won't, and the reason is because THEY SUCK compared to the oem at that point. Mainly because of this surface area difference. Since I'm inherently lazy, I KNOW I am not going to be a slave to my element every 5K. And from testing, I know my maintenance-void oem element is not only the most intelligent choice (for me), but it is still good even after 20K.
Add to the reality, these alternatives are downright ugly when you look at how much dirt they let by, under realistic, non-lab conditions. As much as 100x more dirt. No joke.
Nothing, and I mean nothing, competes with the longevity and dirt protection of this element. I've tested them all.
I have no problem with anyone running whatever they want, for noise, or whatever reason. I'm an old geek, I like relative quiet, that's just me for better or worse. The intake wasn't added for noise, it was to protect the motor and turbo,
FWIW
JMO
Back to pressure drop and cfm rating. These things range from 3 iwc to 5 iwc of pressure drop at stock air flow levels. Do I care about that disparity? Hell no, that is only 0.1 psi! I have over 4 psi of restriction in the mouthpiece to worry about.
I believe SB, KN, AMSOIL, and many others, all have ISO tests for them saying that it "flows better".. That means for the same cfm, there is less pressure drop...and that is true...those claims are generally good. BUT ONLY when the element is new. Ever here of these companies report on the pressure drop after 5000 miles of driving? You won't, and the reason is because THEY SUCK compared to the oem at that point. Mainly because of this surface area difference. Since I'm inherently lazy, I KNOW I am not going to be a slave to my element every 5K. And from testing, I know my maintenance-void oem element is not only the most intelligent choice (for me), but it is still good even after 20K.
Add to the reality, these alternatives are downright ugly when you look at how much dirt they let by, under realistic, non-lab conditions. As much as 100x more dirt. No joke.
Nothing, and I mean nothing, competes with the longevity and dirt protection of this element. I've tested them all.
I have no problem with anyone running whatever they want, for noise, or whatever reason. I'm an old geek, I like relative quiet, that's just me for better or worse. The intake wasn't added for noise, it was to protect the motor and turbo,
FWIW
JMO
Back to pressure drop and cfm rating. These things range from 3 iwc to 5 iwc of pressure drop at stock air flow levels. Do I care about that disparity? Hell no, that is only 0.1 psi! I have over 4 psi of restriction in the mouthpiece to worry about.
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here is iso testing info for the LMM 6.6l model
http://www.sbfilters.com/pdf/iso_5011_2904_ISO 5011 Test Results for 75-5019.pdf
My thought is the fact that aftermarket can be cleaned over and over rather than spend $$$ everytime the filter requires service. HP gain or not.
Also slowlmm's dyno results is pretty much what talked me into going with it.
http://www.sbfilters.com/pdf/iso_5011_2904_ISO 5011 Test Results for 75-5019.pdf
My thought is the fact that aftermarket can be cleaned over and over rather than spend $$$ everytime the filter requires service. HP gain or not.
Also slowlmm's dyno results is pretty much what talked me into going with it.
Yea i was suprised at the results tht we got. It was interesting to see tht at stock power levels we actually lost hp but with big tuneing we gained a significant amount. over the stock airbox I would probbaly agree tht are filters may need to be cleaned more for optimal performance. but this may sound stupid but i bleive as they get dirty they actually filter better
and you will need to. Will you? In reality? I know I wouldn't.
FWIW, I have been all through these "ISO" test results that they publish. You should know, this is all in-house testing, no third party verification that I am aware of. The results that they have posted are not consistent with other independent third party results. They have a test that shows better filtration efficiency, and lower pressure drop, with 1/3rd the filtration surface area of stock. I don't think so.
That's getting technical with it.lol For a truck that won't have such a big tune due to stock transmission, would there be any advantage for putting an intake, or is the ppe intake mod sufficient? I have to find the PPE mod instructions anybody know where to find them, PPE doesn't have them on their site anymore.
Quoting the link above:
"07' GM 6.6L Duramax Diesel LMMS&B Filters Part Number 75-5019 (Prototype)
Flows:40.8% Better OE at Rated CFM
41.7% Better Than OE Across CFM Spectrum"
This is smoke and mirrors advertising, plain and simple. Intentionally deceptive.
"07' GM 6.6L Duramax Diesel LMMS&B Filters Part Number 75-5019 (Prototype)
Flows:40.8% Better OE at Rated CFM
41.7% Better Than OE Across CFM Spectrum"
This is smoke and mirrors advertising, plain and simple. Intentionally deceptive.
Im not disagreeing with you you make very good points. I clean mine just about every oil change so it don't bother me.
If my truck was relatively stock I prolly never would have went woth an aftermarket filter, like i said once I saw the numbers (an I know i was prolly right about the same area as slowlmm) I decided to go with one.
I went 12.85 with the stock air box in Wendy with the original filter from the factory
Well I'm sold on the temperature drop alone-regardless of the element used. High IAT's are :gay:.
Some guys that travel dusty roads need to replace filters every 2000 miles. So buying a new one that often just isn't economically feasible. I often wonder if an oil bath style filter would not be better as a pre-filter - as long as it wouldn't muff up the MAF sensor.
Thanks for the before and after test results Zerogravity!!:rockon:
Some guys that travel dusty roads need to replace filters every 2000 miles. So buying a new one that often just isn't economically feasible. I often wonder if an oil bath style filter would not be better as a pre-filter - as long as it wouldn't muff up the MAF sensor.
Thanks for the before and after test results Zerogravity!!:rockon:
My biggest thing when i looked into buying one was the intake air temps. Even if they flow equal, we all know cooler air usually makes more power. With the stock modded box i was seeing ridiculous air intake temps. It seems as ive dropped 30 degrees off everything by pulling air from outside the engine compartment. I know the S&B intake isnt sealed perfectly to the fender. I went 12.64 @106 on a 80 degree day with a stock box. I will see if it makes any diffrence when i go back to the track. I also checked it wasnt a delco filter it was a purolator. I didnt post it to start an argument. Just to show it did bring down my air intake temps. It also seems to spool alittle faster. Personally i could care less about the turbo noise, the 4094 will take care of that :rofl:
No problem...I tried even it it doesnt mean jack
For me also im not worried about having to clean the filter. I dont drive it enough to really have to worry about the cleaning. If i drove it everyday and put thousand of miles on it a month i probally would of stuck with the stock box no matter what because i wouldnt want to have to clean the filter all the time.
thanks for that info....now what im more concerned about is not noise either,but protection is a good thing
also if one alows a smaller pressure drop i would be mostly interested in that since i dont have a lame mouth piece on my turbo to worry about and the biggest restriction I have to deal with IS the the filter
IMO, the amount of restriction that the element has, whether stock or another, has negligible consequences compared to the IAT creep that the open intake has.
So definately, the IAT benefit is, in my opinion, the only place to find performance. This is also part of the difficulty in finding aplles-apples dyno comparisons...IAT is not a controlled parameter, it's all over the place, especially high after sitting on a dyno for an hour. I would not acknowledge dyno comparisons unless they were accompanied with certain information, IAT most importantly. Every 10 degrees is suppose to lead to a 1% change in power output. I have found that to be true.
a reduction of 5 inches of water colum, won't get you even .1%, just reality, and I guarantee, the low pressure drop results of these elements, expires the moment they get out of the box. As soon as they get dirty, they will never have the same low pressure characteristics, and over the life of the media, it will get more restricted. You can never get it completely clean.
I have never seen the stock element load up enough to set the filter minder. I can't say that about the other guys. I just don't see people buy it, but as I said, at least it should not be done under deception. Hopefully, I took some wind out of that sail.
In that light, I think it is possible to have it all, and that is what I have. I feel that the intake I built does this. It also has the unglamorous quality of being stock looking and dealer freindly. The IAT damping is better than any other I have tested.
If you have EFI and a stock intake, I am sure there is an IAT benefit with SB. I don't think it is as good as you can get, then again, IAT being the only real benefit, they don't publish any smoke and mirrors on that. Here is a summer Phoenix day test of the intake I built compared to stock...LLY. No question about the benefits, you can feel the difference also.
So definately, the IAT benefit is, in my opinion, the only place to find performance. This is also part of the difficulty in finding aplles-apples dyno comparisons...IAT is not a controlled parameter, it's all over the place, especially high after sitting on a dyno for an hour. I would not acknowledge dyno comparisons unless they were accompanied with certain information, IAT most importantly. Every 10 degrees is suppose to lead to a 1% change in power output. I have found that to be true.
a reduction of 5 inches of water colum, won't get you even .1%, just reality, and I guarantee, the low pressure drop results of these elements, expires the moment they get out of the box. As soon as they get dirty, they will never have the same low pressure characteristics, and over the life of the media, it will get more restricted. You can never get it completely clean.
I have never seen the stock element load up enough to set the filter minder. I can't say that about the other guys. I just don't see people buy it, but as I said, at least it should not be done under deception. Hopefully, I took some wind out of that sail.
In that light, I think it is possible to have it all, and that is what I have. I feel that the intake I built does this. It also has the unglamorous quality of being stock looking and dealer freindly. The IAT damping is better than any other I have tested.
If you have EFI and a stock intake, I am sure there is an IAT benefit with SB. I don't think it is as good as you can get, then again, IAT being the only real benefit, they don't publish any smoke and mirrors on that. Here is a summer Phoenix day test of the intake I built compared to stock...LLY. No question about the benefits, you can feel the difference also.