Steering Gear Box

[JCM5]

Ive read allot of post on these but wanted to share what Im seeing on my truck.

Slop in wheel, Clunking noise felt at wheel.
First thought was replace intermediate shaft and bearing - did issue still there.
Had wife turn wheel back and forth and found the steering box input shaft seems to snap a 1/4 turn before pitman starts to move. Weight on Wheels
Lifted weight off tires, input can move 1/2 turn without pitman moving.
Tried to adjust pre-load - mistake here, it just made the steering wheel tight were it would not return to center. Only moved adjustment 1 turn in. Ended up moving it back.
Thought maybe a bind in linkage but no it all appears to move freely.
Now Im looking into a new gear box. Auto Zone - Oreillys all have remanf for ~$150. Seen the Red head for around $350.

Question, Anyone have any luck with Auto Zones? Is the Red Head that much better or is it the name?

 

[Chevy1925]

autozones will be slapped together remans.... 9/10 they have slop in them from poor rebuilds. Same with napa, same with oreillys. I hear good things about AGM, Red head seems to have mixed reviews.

 

[JCM5]

AGM?

Whats the internet address.
Found red head but not agm

 

[moparkxracer]

http://www.agrperformance.com/Gearbox-AGR-Performance-MB-Motorsports.htm

I called them to ask a lot of questions, I had one built to what I was looking for, their staff was very helpful in answering all my questions.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

I've got an arg in my burb, and you couldn't pay me enough to put another one in. I have to readjust it every 5k miles like clockwork due to play. I called them when I bought it as it was loose as a goose right out of the box, and they refused to warranty it. told me to adjust it, i did and 5k miles later i had to adjust it again. now here i am 3k later and its loose again. I'm going redhead next go round.

 

[Chevy1925]

I've got an arg in my burb, and you couldn't pay me enough to put another one in. I have to readjust it every 5k miles like clockwork due to play. I called them when I bought it as it was loose as a goose right out of the box, and they refused to warranty it. told me to adjust it, i did and 5k miles later i had to adjust it again. now here i am 3k later and its loose again. I'm going redhead next go round.

messing with that "adjustment" on top of the box is a good way to kill the box in a hurry. its a temporary fix to stop play but you create bad wear patterns inside. its like setting up a ring and pinion and pushing the pinion in towards the carrier more to fix too much backlash

they should have had you send the box back, Ferm.

 

[coker6303]

I put a Red Head on my LMM, wasn't worth it in my opinion. Had just as much movement over center as my OEM box did and they told me to adjust the set screw. Not what I was expecting... My pitman and idler were new and I had the centerlink braced as well as the idler arm braced. Only play was in the damn gear box!!

annoying as hell on a farm to market road that gets rutted slightly so it walks the truck around just enough to feel the play the whole time.

I would try the AGR out :thumb:

 

[JCM5]

Yeah I know about the top screw. It did one time before and regret it. Thought what the heck Ill try it again. However the gear box is not that easy from the top to get to.

You always do things to try and save money but in the end you either end up knowing more or just wasting time.

Seeing different reviews on these items, leaning towards buying a new unit if I can find one or been looking at AutoZone.

I like the local stores for 1 reason only. Some of it has life time warranty and if it has a limited warranty you can return it and get another usually same day or next. No shipping etc.

Ill settle for better then what I have and move on.

I will look into red head and agr and read there sites.

THX

 

[henery97]

I think psc has a gearbox as well

 

[Chevy1925]

I think psc has a gearbox as well

they will be who i send mine to when it dies but ive heard of guys having issues with their boxes as well.


the lifetime warranty ones are great...... accept when you have to swap them out every year. it gets old. i had 3 bad boxes in a row from napa (over a 2 week span). put one on, slop in the steering, take it back, get old core back, put it on, drive truck till new one came in.... repeat that 3 times and you see why it sucks. not to mention the fluid mess and dealing with the damn pitman arm each time.

so far, this box has lasted me 6 years from napa but im noticing play starting to come back in it. i havent been exactly nice to it though. Keep your core till you try the new box out and make damn sure all your steering components are tight with little to no wear so you know for sure its all in the box.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

messing with that "adjustment" on top of the box is a good way to kill the box in a hurry. its a temporary fix to stop play but you create bad wear patterns inside. its like setting up a ring and pinion and pushing the pinion in towards the carrier more to fix too much backlash

they should have had you send the box back, Ferm.

It's not the adjuster on top I have to adjust, it is the preload for the steering shaft I have to keep adjusting. I haven't touched the one on top since i adjusted it right after I put it in. I'm pretty familiar with how to adjust them as I've done quite a few of them. The adjuster on top is to adjust the preload on the sector shaft to control the heavy on center feel, the input adjuster is the one most overlook to take the play out(can't remember what it's actually called off the top of my head). All I know is it is a PITA to get to it with my BURB with a DURAMAX crammed into an engine bay it was never really meant to be in. And i agree they should have taken it back. The supervisor I spoke with was addiment he wouldn't take it back for slop, and the speed shop I bought it from wouldn't help me out either(hence why I don't shop at his speed shop now unless I'm absolutely stuck with him for something I need).

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Yeah I know about the top screw. It did one time before and regret it. Thought what the heck Ill try it again. However the gear box is not that easy from the top to get to.

You always do things to try and save money but in the end you either end up knowing more or just wasting time.

Seeing different reviews on these items, leaning towards buying a new unit if I can find one or been looking at AutoZone.

I like the local stores for 1 reason only. Some of it has life time warranty and if it has a limited warranty you can return it and get another usually same day or next. No shipping etc.

Ill settle for better then what I have and move on.

I will look into red head and agr and read there sites.

THX

EVERY AZ box I ever got needed ALOT of adjustement right out of the box. I put one in my JEEP before that had over a half turn of slack in it right out of the box. Checked it and the top adjuster screw wasn't even finger tight.

 

[henery97]

I've had 2 advance auto boxes and they are both worse than the worn out stock box I originally took off. I have yet to hear anything consistently positive about redhead, agr, or psc so I got used to it driving like a dodge.

 

[c20elephant]

If and when my power steering pump, steering gear, hydraboost start leaking I have already purchased the cores from a 100,000 mile truck off of craigslist no leaks and still had the factory bar code stickers on them. I will take them to a local rebuilder in Scottsdale and NEVER let my OEM unit leave. If you are replacing pay the core and keep your old unit until you are absolutely sure the rebuilt one is good....

AGR has some good info for adjusting...

http://agrperformance.com/AGR-Installation/JK-Steering-Box-Pre-Load.pdf

 

[duratothemax]

Sadly, nothing will ever be as good as a factory OEM box...

At this point, when my factory original gets worn out (has 236k on it, still surprisingly tight for 236k), Im going to put a lower mile used OEM one on. After having many friends have multiple bad experiences with multiple brands of "rebuilt" boxes, its not worth the hassle IMO.

Why nobody can rebuild one of these steering boxes to perform and last like a factory new box is beyond me...how many years have these boxes been around???

Ben

 

[c20elephant]

Found these posted by 56taskforce on another site..

I would find a shop that actually has a flow test unit for steering systems. Slop felt in a power box is often the result of low flow in the hydraulic system. With low flow the valve is slow and sluggish to be retuned too center and the opening and closing of the valve is felt as slop. With good flow the valve almost never has to open fully as it will almost instantly catch up with the inputs from the driver. You need to test the system and see if the problem is low flow and then what is causing it. It very possibly could be the brake booster. The booster operation its self requise very little flow but does have its own return if the valve in it is sticky it is possible for it to be returning oil too tank instead of too the steering box reducing the volume of oil for the box to work. In order to diagnose you need to know both flow and pressure at various points in the system during operation. With out this information all one can do is throw money and parts at it and hope.

The springs I referred too are the valve spool centering spings. They are like two stacks of miniature leaf springs. They run through a slot in the spool holding it centered in the valve body when there is no steering input. The input shaft in the box is two pieces the upper part where the column connects is the spool of the valve the lower part is the valve body and also a mechanical link too the piston. This mechanical link is accomplished via a sophisticated screw jack utilizing a series of recirculating balls to provide smooth bearing operation. The piston is interfaced with the output shaft via a small rack and pinon transforming the lateral movement of the piston to rotational movement at the output shaft. The piston is moved mechanically by the screw and assisted hydraulically.

You do realize that test needs to be preformed while the truck is running... A lot of the slop you see there is the valve and needs to be there. Start the truck and most of that would disappear if it dose not dose not it is most likely the pump. It could however be weak or broken springs in the valve but more commonly the pump. Two things can happen with the pump low flow and or low pressure.
The way it works is you give input at the wheel that slop is the valve opening and directing fluid to move the output shaft in the direction you have turned the wheel. When the output shaft catches up with your input the valve is closed from the other side as that slop is taken up and the valve returns too center.
With our trucks being diesel and not building vacuum we have another part thrown into the system with the brake booster if the valving in it is sticky it can cut flow too the steering box and yes without a healthy hydraulic system the steering valve will become just that slop.

Hydraulic flow meters aren't cheap. You can however check and besure the return on the brake booster isn't dumping too tank when not in use. The booster retune should only flow a little while brake application is being released. When the brakes are not being used 100% flow should be going through the booster and on too the steering box. The valving in the steering box is open center, meaning when not performing work, the fluid free flows through back to tank. The valve in the booster is a power beyond when it is not doing work fluid is allowed to flow past but in a working port to the steering box to do work there before returning too tank. The return line only comes into play for venting fluid used for work within the booster.
For more info Google hydraulics, open center and power beyond valves. Also the differce between pressure and flow and how they effect one another.

 

[superswamper003]

After reading all this, I think mine may be going out too.. Also, i replaced my power steering pump back in january with a oreilly reman, and i must say its been great so far and improved the driveability a little bit.. Hopefully it lasts!

 

[OregonDMAX]

Sadly, nothing will ever be as good as a factory OEM box...

At this point, when my factory original gets worn out (has 236k on it, still surprisingly tight for 236k), Im going to put a lower mile used OEM one on. After having many friends have multiple bad experiences with multiple brands of "rebuilt" boxes, its not worth the hassle IMO.

Why nobody can rebuild one of these steering boxes to perform and last like a factory new box is beyond me...how many years have these boxes been around???

Ben

Quoted for nothing but the truth. All of the reman boxes at part stores are half assed rebuilds, the high end boxes like AGR, PSC and redhead are slightly.better but still have issues. I've read just as many posts about them failing as not failing.

My conclusion is that nothing will come close to a low mileage untouched original like Ben mentioned.

And then one day I will track down the guy who built them on the line and ask him WTF he did :secret:

 

[Chevy1925]

Quoted for nothing but the truth. All of the reman boxes at part stores are half assed rebuilds, the high end boxes like AGR, PSC and redhead are slightly.better but still have issues. I've read just as many posts about them failing as not failing.

My conclusion is that nothing will come close to a low mileage untouched original like Ben mentioned.

And then one day I will track down the guy who built them on the line and ask him WTF he did :secret:

problem is, ive replaced two factory steering boxes this year that were on low mileage truck. one was an 06 lbz with 80k, other was a low mileage 08 lmm with 90k. one was creaking and had to have a destroyed cage inside, other was just sloppy and leaking. the latter may have been able to get by with just a seal replacement and some tweaking but ive never had good luck with that.

 

[OregonDMAX]

Did they have large tires. I noticed mine get worse as soon as I went from 265's to 305's