so im told The Allison transmissions are so problematic and expensive

[malibu795]

Mike's trans is not from Coan. His converter is. But you should already know that.

i know now.

all i ask was for the price of a max effort tranny with a manual valve body.
hughes barely touches them
tci kinda does
PATC does but not to the extent coan does.

 

[Mike_S]

$2800 without converter

So its slightly more than what I have spent on my allison without the convertor, and have less capacity. Like I said before, fine option for liht weight and/or low torque applications. But cannot shake a straw at the allison in a F/S HD truck. No matter what you do, a smaller diameter clutch pack will NEVER hold the same amount of torque that a larger diameter one will. period end of story.

 

[JOHNBOY]

So its slightly more than what I have spent on my allison without the convertor, and have less capacity. Like I said before, fine option for liht weight and/or low torque applications. But cannot shake a straw at the allison in a F/S HD truck. No matter what you do, a smaller diameter clutch pack will NEVER hold the same amount of torque that a larger diameter one will. period end of story.

Did I say it was a replacement for an Allison in a truck? No I did not!

That price was out right. Meaning no cores to trade in.

What I said is. It is far from the junk that some say. That darn 4L80 still has not been out run by Allison. A budget build Allison like you mention will never get you in a second of what that 4l80 has already done. It takes deep pockets to make an Allison run that fast and live. Good luck try to get an Allison to live for as many passes as the lowly 4L80 has already made.

 

[Mike_S]

Did I say it was a replacement for an Allison in a truck? No I did not!

That price was out right. Meaning no cores to trade in.

What I said is. It is far from the junk that some say. That darn 4L80 still has not been out run by Allison. A budget build Allison like you mention will never get you in a second of what that 4l80 has already done. It takes deep pockets to make an Allison run that fast and live. Good luck try to get an Allison to live for as many passes as the lowly 4L80 has already made.

Add to the end of the sentence in red "in a full size truck" and think about it. If you read what I am saying I'm not bashing the 80 or 85 at all, just saying they will not live in a full size truck such as what we most of us here are runnin.

For a truck that can drive to the track and run a 10.xx quarter mile and drive home, and then tow 18,000 LBS the next day, and then let your wife get groceries the next day all while not having to deal with retardedly rough shifts, there is no replacement for the LCT1000.

Can the 4L80/85 go faster in a quarter? sure, as long as the vehicle is light or the torque is kept in check.

Can the 4L80/85 tow? You bet, but not like the allison can and not with the same weight and power/torque levels.

Bottom line, if you have a heavy truck and alot of power/torque, allison is a more viable option than the 80/85.

If you have a light vehicle and an engine with lots of horse but nominal torque the 80/85 is a more viable option as well as a much simpler one.

Fair enough? :thumb: :hug:

P.S. My trans was outright as well, with no cores, as well as NOT being a budget build. Just gotta know what you are doing thats all.

 

[02bigstrokin]

Add to the end of the sentence in red "in a full size truck" and think about it. If you read what I am saying I'm not bashing the 80 or 85 at all, just saying they will not live in a full size truck such as what we most of us here are runnin.

For a truck that can drive to the track and run a 10.xx quarter mile and drive home, and then tow 18,000 LBS the next day, and then let your wife get groceries the next day all while not having to deal with retardedly rough shifts, there is no replacement for the LCT1000.

Can the 4L80/85 go faster in a quarter? sure, as long as the vehicle is light or the torque is kept in check.

Can the 4L80/85 tow? You bet, but not like the allison can and not with the same weight and power/torque levels.

Bottom line, if you have a heavy truck and alot of power/torque, allison is a more viable option than the 80/85.

If you have a light vehicle and an engine with lots of horse but nominal torque the 80/85 is a more viable option as well as a much simpler one.

Fair enough? :thumb: :hug:

P.S. My trans was outright as well, with no cores, as well as NOT being a budget build. Just gotta know what you are doing thats all.

how many trucks do you know of that actually do what your claiming? and if they are doing it, i promise you its not on a basic stage iv suncoast kit.

 

[malibu795]

how many trucks do you know of that actually do what your claiming? and if they are doing it, i promise you its not on a basic stage iv suncoast kit.

just bump the time up to 11.xx and the principle is the same.

 

[Rhall]

how many trucks do you know of that actually do what your claiming? and if they are doing it, i promise you its not on a basic stage iv suncoast kit.

X2, id like to know of 1 truck on the list of duramaxes who has made a 10 second pass, then hauled 18k the next day. I could drive mine everyday if i wanted too last year, but not haul 18k, its just not realistic when you get to that level, maybe low 12s or high 11s that MIGHT be more realistic, and my allison is far from a basic stage IV kit, if it was basic, theres no doubt in my mind it would have only made a few 11 and 10 second passes before a refresh.

 

[JD4440]

What trans is used in DMax transplants like the PPE Chevelle and others ?

 

[Mike L.]

What trans is used in DMax transplants like the PPE Chevelle and others ?

One of my Alli's.

 

[JD4440]

Thanks Mike, Couldn't remember.

 

[Mike_S]

how many trucks do you know of that actually do what your claiming? and if they are doing it, i promise you its not on a basic stage iv suncoast kit.

I can guarantee you its not on a 4L80/85!

 

[rick67]

Allison is the only one that has no bands. bands have less clutch material than a set of clutches.

 

[malibu795]

Allison is the only one that has no bands. bands have less clutch material than a set of clutches.

IMO down fall to bands is they are more likely to stretch.. more so then less "surface area" and there is not 100% even pressure throughout the entire surface area as well vs clutch packs.

 

[Mike L.]

IMO down fall to bands is they are more likely to stretch.. more so then less "surface area" and there is not 100% even pressure throughout the entire surface area as well vs clutch packs.

What's wrong with bands is they need a servo to apply them. This means filling a large cavity to actuate it, which is not a problem, but exhausting it upon release of the band is where the problem occurs. Release pressure is always the apply pressure for a direct clutch and there will always be a tie up.
The 47/48RE Dodge trans will burn the second gear band not on apply, but on release when the direct third gear clutches apply. The direct clutches will burn at the same time because the timing will never be perfect.
The Turbo 400 and 4L80/85E have no timing. One clutch comes on after another with no clutch having to release for another to apply.

 

[Diesel Pilot]

This is a pretty good tech thread, a bit heated there but good info.

Basically this is what I've gotten out of the discussion so far.

TH400 = Can live behind a duramax at stock to mild power, but without the OD it's problematic for the narrow rpm range of a diesel.

700R4 = not a chance.

4L80/85e = will do just fine as long as it's not used in a full weight truck for all out racing or pulling. Would maybe be a good option for a transplant into a lighter duty truck like a C/K series. Definitely a good option for a car re-power.

A1000 = can hold the power just fine, has issues at extreme power levels, but what really doesn't. It's enormous, so maybe not suited for a re-power based on available space. Electronics also may cause challenges for installation.


Is that about right? Feel free to interject anything extra or make changes to this assessment.

 

[Diesel Pilot]

Saw this offering from TCI.

http://www.tciauto.com/Products/6x/

6-speed version of a 4L80e.

Says it will hold 850 hp, but like was said earlier, at what torque does this guy give up.

Also, about the same price for the package deal as an all out Allison build.

 

[Mike L.]

The 4L80/85 will not hold a tow truck very long with a 6.5. When they come into the shop there is nothing left of the hard parts. Pump, drums, planets, center support, shafts are trash including the case sometimes.
Heavy weight will kill this trans in no time. Lighten it up and it stands a chance and just might shine. Fourth gear will always be a weakeness no matter what.

 

[LBZ]

Do you think it would hold up in a half ton truck that doesn't tow anything Mike with a mildly tuned engine-Under 450hp?

 

[malibu795]

Saw this offering from TCI.

http://www.tciauto.com/Products/6x/

6-speed version of a 4L80e.

Says it will hold 850 hp, but like was said earlier, at what torque does this guy give up.

Also, about the same price for the package deal as an all out Allison build.

i have talked to a couple that have ran them its nice but you pay a permuim... the guys i talked to are road racers running about 500-600rwhp in a ~3500lb midsize car one was a monte carlo other was a converted 5 series bimmer

figger a 850hp BBC will put out maybe 800-900lbft pending setup.
with that roughly said a mild tow tune with stock charger will max the tranny..

a 1/2 RCLB or 5500lb would be max weight roughly. rcsb 2wd would be under 5000lb

and as mike said they have enough problem hold the enemitc 6.5.. maybe a built 85 would last alot longer.... but still tasked to the max or over tasked pending chassis its in.

i have been debating weather to put a allison/4l85/NV4500 in my truck... it currently weights 5600-5700lb with me in it. even just ~400rwhp would be loads of fun and plenty for something like that.

 

[Mike L.]

Do you think it would hold up in a half ton truck that doesn't tow anything Mike with a mildly tuned engine-Under 450hp?

Yes
I think I'm going to revive the SoCal Diesl/Inglewood build and try one.