so im told The Allison transmissions are so problematic and expensive

[malibu795]

the basic jist is he want to put a dmax/alli in a an older square body

and he i am trying to set an senoir gm mech straight... im sure some of my spec arent verbatim.. one of the mods
vile

The Allison transmissions are so problematic and expensive even to fix yourself you'd literally have to have bank, be crazy or have one fall into your lap to make it worth your efforts. I'm rebuilding an Allison right now and you don't even want to know what the parts cost let alone the cracked extension housing that goes along with 90% of these pieces of crap. Now do you even want me to get started with the engine management problems

another guy.choptop

If i was putting a Duramax of even the 8.1 in one of these trucks, Id go with a 4l80 over the Allison. I worked for Stewart&Stevenson who are Allison dealers, and learned alot about the Allison 1000 thats in the Chevy trucks. For what the Allison costs, and its limits on power input that it cant handle, you can buy a well built 4l80. A good friend of mine gets to rebuild Allisons quite often because someone decided to put a Bullydog programmer, and toasted it. The 1000 is really only rated for 350 horse from the factory

chop top guy

I have a friend that had a 4l80e race prepped to handle 1000 horsepower, and paid $5000 to do so. I havent seen anyone offering to stock rebuild an Allison 1000 for that price. I have an Allison in my 01 crewcab. I know Im looking at $6k if mine dies, but at 65k miles, I have time, and I dont beat on it.
I do like it, but the question was putting one in one of our trucks. For the size and weight of the 1000, the cost of the 1000, and the cost to durability ratio, no, I wouldnt put one in one of these trucks, especially when I can get a trans for half the price to handle more horsepower. Like I stated, I have a friend that does nothing but transmissions, and 90% of his work is Allison. The Allison to 4l80e failures are no where similar. The only reason I can see putting an Allison in a squarebody is just to be different. The cost factors dont seem to justify the installation.

http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/smforum/index.php?topic=16360.0

:baby:

 

[JD4440]

If you read it on the web it must be true :hello:

 

[malibu795]

i know chris... and the guys that actually do stuf are stupid.....:rofl:

 

[Mike_S]

I'd like to see a 4L80E transmit the torque numbers that the alisons are transmitting. Its the torque thats killing them, not the horsepower. That 1000 HP rated '80 isn't rated for the torque that the allison is. Just my .02 though.

 

[duratothemax]

fine, let them think that. Not going to affect me and my opinion of the allison. Not even worth arguing, who cares, really....

 

[paint94979]

fine, let them think that. Not going to affect me and my opinion of the allison. Not even worth arguing, who cares, really....

x2 Ben

 

[Diesel Pilot]

That's a funny read, thanks malibu. :thumb:

I'm not even really sure you can get another "GM type" transmission to hold even stock torque numbers when running behind a duramax.

Does anyone know (Mike L will) if a TH400, 700R4, or 4L80e can even be built enough to last at 600 lb/ft reliably? Let alone 1000+ lb/ft? Say in a daily type application. Just curious.

 

[duratothemax]

TH400 can/will, but you wont have overdrive or lockup.

As I understand it from Mike, the overdrive on a 4L80 will not handle the torque.

700r4, not a chance in hell, no matter how built it is.

 

[malibu795]

TH400 can/will, but you wont have overdrive or lockup.

As I understand it from Mike, the overdrive on a 4L80 will not handle the torque.

700r4, not a chance in hell, no matter how built it is.

4l85 can as well IF you keep out of 4th and lock up at WOT 4th gear is too weak even when it is built

 

[TheBac]

That discussion on that forum was just sad.

 

[duratothemax]

4l85 can as well IF you keep out of 4th and lock up at WOT 4th gear is too weak even when it is built

yeah thanks...isnt that what I just said........???

 

[lotsofmiles]

i went thru 3 4l85e at stock power(stock VAN power) in 60,000 miles.

Allison is still holding at 255,xxx at more than stock power

 

[JOHNBOY]

TH400 can/will, but you wont have overdrive or lockup.

As I understand it from Mike, the overdrive on a 4L80 will not handle the torque.

700r4, not a chance in hell, no matter how built it is.

4l85 can as well IF you keep out of 4th and lock up at WOT 4th gear is too weak even when it is built

I disagree. The 4L80 is surprisingly strong. Mike Woods trans held up to more 9 sec passes then any Allison I am aware of. Granted this is a 3600lbs car but the OD has never been a problem for Mike. Heck it makes all the shifts with the converter locked. No defuel for shifts no issues. I know because I am the one that sets up the lock up timer. Heck he broke the input shaft at the Texas Mile in October 2009 when he engaged the Gear Vendors. Which is a very harsh engagement. He engaged the GV with the converter locked and in OD. Snapped the input clean off. OD was fine. Trans was rebuilt with billet shafts for this year. Went 202.4mph at the Texas Mile this year. Yep them 4L80s must be weak junk?

Have you two ever even worked on one or are just spewing junk you read on the web. I have messed with them and they are far from weak junk. Not sure I would race one in a 6000lbs + truck but it is good option for the light weight crowd.

 

[duratothemax]

John I was referring to a 4L80 behind a duramax IN A FULL SIZE TRUCK.

Im aware that they work fine in lighter cars with dmax swaps....Diesel 5's dmax grand national is another good example.

yes, I have rebuilt TH400's/4L80's. I have never done a "performance" build on them though, unless you consider adding a transgo to the last TH400 I rebuilt a "performance build"

ben

 

[Mike_S]

I think what we're gettin at is this: do you know of anyone that has put a transgo-type kit, some basic minor mods of the clutch packs, and a torque convertor in a 4L80/4L85 and been able to hold in excess of 1000 FT LBS of torque? I know I have spent PLENTY on the 4L80 thats in my 94, and they tell me not to exceed about 700 FT LBS or it will be toast, and fast...and thats in a truck that weighs about 5500 LBS...

Now don't get me wrong, I think that the 80 and 85 are viable options for light weight and/or low torque aplications, but they are simply not large enough to handle weight and torque together.

 

[Mike_S]

I disagree. The 4L80 is surprisingly strong. Mike Woods trans held up to more 9 sec passes then any Allison I am aware of. Granted this is a 3600lbs car but the OD has never been a problem for Mike. Heck it makes all the shifts with the converter locked. No defuel for shifts no issues. I know because I am the one that sets up the lock up timer. Heck he broke the input shaft at the Texas Mile in October 2009 when he engaged the Gear Vendors. Which is a very harsh engagement. He engaged the GV with the converter locked and in OD. Snapped the input clean off. OD was fine. Trans was rebuilt with billet shafts for this year. Went 202.4mph at the Texas Mile this year. Yep them 4L80s must be weak junk?

Have you two ever even worked on one or are just spewing junk you read on the web. I have messed with them and they are far from weak junk. Not sure I would race one in a 6000lbs + truck but it is good option for the light weight crowd.

Curious what the build cost tally came in at on that trans.

 

[malibu795]

john talkign about a full size 3/4 or 1 ton truck with towing being involed...

im sure the 4l85 that is in mike woods care would last little longer then a avg built 4l85 in a 500hp/1000 dmax... but wouldnt last near as long as a a alison with a SCIII in it especially towing. on anything BUT flat ground

weight being the killer here. that 3600lb is the saver of that tranny IMO

BTW never said that a 4L85E was weak junk and yes i have built them. i am saying that they are not 100% up to then task of bing behind a 3 ton truck towing and working.

you say then C1s are allison weak clutch pack.(as you told me several times).. they are bigger then then overrunning clutch pack on 85 no? even with being able to add 1 or 2 clutch packs and them being red clutch with kolene steels... they arent up to then task at hand. shall we compare planataries next?

 

[malibu795]

Curious what the build cost tally came in at on that trans.

i called coan few month ago... and asked the price range of a max effort 85 i was told 5000-6000 range including up graded hard parts

 

[speedmetal6.6]

I run mine hard every time a Ford or a Dodge wants to run and so far I've won every time. I put down 534hp and 934trq on a dyno today. I'm not saying I wont but I havent had one problem with my 6 speed! Those guy's must be doing something wrong, and further more if you cant build it yourself and have the cash buy an ATS Stg 2 it should handle anything you throw at it and has a 5 year 150,00 mile warranty

 

[JOHNBOY]

Curious what the build cost tally came in at on that trans.

$2800 without converter

john talkign about a full size 3/4 or 1 ton truck with towing being involed...

im sure the 4l85 that is in mike woods care would last little longer then a avg built 4l85 in a 500hp/1000 dmax... but wouldnt last near as long as a a alison with a SCIII in it especially towing. on anything BUT flat ground

weight being the killer here. that 3600lb is the saver of that tranny IMO

BTW never said that a 4L85E was weak junk and yes i have built them. i am saying that they are not 100% up to then task of bing behind a 3 ton truck towing and working.

you say then C1s are allison weak clutch pack.(as you told me several times).. they are bigger then then overrunning clutch pack on 85 no? even with being able to add 1 or 2 clutch packs and them being red clutch with kolene steels... they arent up to then task at hand. shall we compare planataries next?

What ever Adam. :thumb:

i called coan few month ago... and asked the price range of a max effort 85 i was told 5000-6000 range including up graded hard parts

Mike's trans is not from Coan. His converter is. But you should already know that.