S464/S480 Twin Kit??

[LBZ]

So I bought a used twin kit built by Wehrli.
Originally it was an 4094/S480 setup.
My plan was to go back to a stock LBZ turbo and match it up to the S480, but the more I think about it and the difficulty I'm having finding the pieces I need to make it work, the more I think it's a dumb idea.

I still have all the pieces and my S464 turbo so I'm wondering if maybe I shouldn't try to twin it with the 480. I would need to re-work the piping to fit, but in the end it would be alot cheaper than buying a turbo. Question is will it work well?
Specs on the S464 are a little vague. It was the first one sold by Trent and I built the kit myself as he had not even tried one out yet. IIRC, it is a 64/74 with a .90A/R. It will need a wastegate I reckon. I do remember Trent saying a couple years back that it would work well with an S480. Not the most ideal, but it would work.

So what I'm looking for is a little input from those more turbo and twin inclined than myself. I've never had much to do with them and this is a learning curve for me. Looking to see what y'all think and if it's worth a try or not.


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[Noreaster]

S464
Compressor: 63.5 mm inducer, 91.4mm exducer. 0.63 a/r
Turbine: 83.5mm inducer, 74mm exducer
This wheel flows about 67lb/min

doesn't sound like its an ETT comp wheel

 

[LBZ]

Thanks Noreaster, where did you find the specs? And no I don't believe it is an ETT. This turbo may have been built before that time.

The specs sound about right but I'm pretty sure my A/R is .90 however not a .63. I wish Trent hadn't fallen off the earth so I could ask him if he remembers what he sent me. I never got a spec sheet and the box is LONG gone. When I get home I'm going to call Alamo with the S/N and P/N and see if they can tell me what is what.

I did a search on a 64/80 combo and did find one on FB.

It's for a 6.7 Cummins. I would like to know what their spec's are on the turbo's to see if it is close to mine.

 

[Noreaster]

the compressor cover a/r is .63, its the standard cover for s400s
pn# 169012 comes up for s464, used on detroit diesels

 

[LBZ]

Found this thread here too:
http://www.duramaxdiesels.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37365
A couple people talking about it, but nobody seemed to have pulled the trigger. From reading it though, I may need to talk to Brayden as it appears he has some experience with this set-up......
Still researching and learning.

 

[LBZ]

the compressor cover a/r is .63, its the standard cover for s400s
pn# 169012 comes up for s464, used on detroit diesels

Ya that's where Trent got the idea from. But I do believe this one got a different cover to change the A/R so it would spool a little better. I know there are 64/83 S464's out there as well that came from Trent with the .90 A/R so that may also be what I have.

 

[JoshH]

The .90 A/R you're talking about is probably the turbine housing. The compressor housing doesn't really have much affect, if any, on spool up.

 

[LBZ]

Possibly Josh. I really don't know the exact specs of this turbo.
All I know for sure is that it spools almost as fast as a 366 does and always had good egt's - although my PW was VERY conservative. I really can't see why it wouldn't work, but am looking for more feedback before I butcher the piping in this kit.

 

[Noreaster]

Ya that's where Trent got the idea from. But I do believe this one got a different cover to change the A/R so it would spool a little better. I know there are 64/83 S464's out there as well that came from Trent with the .90 A/R so that may also be what I have.

the .90a/r is the turbine housing, its the smallest BW turbine housing you can get in a T4 S400
seeing that its probably not a ETT wheel & flows 67lbs Id get a ETT 66 & have the cover machined for it, they flow around 80lbs & isnt going to spool any different

 

[LBZ]

Ok.
What would the advantages of doing this be in a twin kit? Other than flowing more? Keeping in mind this is a DD truck that tows alot at elevations of 3000-6000'.


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[Dirtymaxx03]

Ok.
What would the advantages of doing this be in a twin kit? Other than flowing more? Keeping in mind this is a DD truck that tows alot at elevations of 3000-6000'.


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nothing besides flow.

i dont see why you couldnt use the 64 as is. With the .90 exhaust housing on it you shouldnt need a gate at all

 

[LBZ]

Ya that was the intent when Trent sold it to me. No need for a gate and a bigger shaft that is stronger with the S4 chassis. Downside is it's a little heavier than a 366 and spools a little slower. But flows more I was told. Most I ever made for boost was about 38 on a 2400PW tune.

What does a 366 flow anyways? Lots of guys running this with a 480.


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[Magnus]

64 over 80 used to be THE setup for 5.9 common rail cummins guys. Might've been a 364 over 480, but the turbine on yours isn't that much bigger to make a significant impact. Compressor wise they should match up close enough to spool smoothly.

The reason you don't see any 464/480 combos running around is that the 464 compressor is a dinosaur compared to the latest box stock ETT compressor wheels. Just look at how much more power people make with the FMW 467.7 which uses the exact same turbine side! That said if you've already got both turbos sitting around and you're just looking to make the most of what you have, hook it up and run it.:thumb:

 

[LBZ]

64 over 80 used to be THE setup for 5.9 common rail cummins guys. Might've been a 364 over 480, but the turbine on yours isn't that much bigger to make a significant impact. Compressor wise they should match up close enough to spool smoothly.

The reason you don't see any 464/480 combos running around is that the 464 compressor is a dinosaur compared to the latest box stock ETT compressor wheels. Just look at how much more power people make with the FMW 467.7 which uses the exact same turbine side! That said if you've already got both turbos sitting around and you're just looking to make the most of what you have, hook it up and run it.:thumb:

Interesting info. Thanks!:thumb:

I'm going to take the 464 into Alamo tomorrow and see what they can tell me about it and see what it would cost to get it upped to an ETT 66. Or what other good options would be to go with or keep what I have if it's still in good shape.

 

[LBZ]

Dropped off my S464 at Alamo Turbo yesterday. They are likely going to put a new cartridge in it and I'm getting them to price out an ETT wheel and machining of the housing.
I'm a little leery of doing this because I don't know what the bigger ETT wheel will do to change the characteristics and drivability of the turbo. I don't want to end up with a bunch of lag when I twin it.

Anyone got any before and after experience of the ETT mod?

 

[LBZ]

$650 for a cartridge kit including bearings, machining the pedestal and turbo bases as they weren't true and the labour. Probably just going to run it as is and see how it works with the 480.

 

[mackthehack]

Any updates?

 

[LBZ]

I got my 464 rebuilt just gotta pick it up. They squared off the pedestal and turbine side faces I guess as it was not flat and put a new cartridge in it.
Checked out my 480 yesterday down in Montana and the kit looks good, turbo not so much. It has alot of radial play in the shaft and is almost contacting the housing on the compressor side. I'm gonna run it anyways though for a bit to test things out-just keep a close eye on it.

Now it's just a matter of waiting for my engine to be built then start throwing stuff together!!


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[mackthehack]

Shitty deal on the 480. You don't want that thing to grenade and kill your built motor...

 

[LBZ]

Ya well that's what happens when you buy used. I'm not sure it's a real 480 either. The tag says "garrett p/n" on it. I believe it's a chinese 480 not a real BW. Gonna get it looked at before I install to confirm it's good to run.


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