p0016 tricks to find source

[Veikra]

I have a p0016 which I am trying to find.

P0016 Crankshaft position, camshaft correlation
Basically, the crank and cam sensor arent in tune.

The truck starts and runs well, albeit, doesnt balance injectors
because of it.

The crank reluctor wheel is rock solid.

So, it's said a failed crank wont let the truck start, and I tested.

Unplugged crank, left cam sensor plugged : No Start
Plugged crank, unplugged cam sensor: No Start

I put a new camshaft sensor 150$; Same thing.

I left the new camsahft sensor in its place, and put the old one in place of the cranksensor; Truck starts, runs a second and stops.

Im at the point of checking wiring, easy enough but which one is the actual problem since BOTH have effect on the vehicule.

*goes to look for a used oscilloscope on Ebay*

 

[Slowmax]

Did you take the belt off, and try to move the balancer side to side. Sound's like a broken crankshaft. Those two codes usually set when it gives.

 

[Veikra]

theres only one code p0016. I took the belt off, turned the crank with a rachet but didnt feel anything weird. Took off the crank pulley and didnt see anything odd.

The truck has been running like this for about 5 years.

 

[Veikra]

how do I diagnose this? I'm trying to find a guy that works on duramax and has a scope.
Now, I may pay to get the original gm tune reflash in the truck in case it's corrupted or whatever.
It seems all people want to do it swap a ecu in, without proving me that it's wrong.

A professionnal autel scanner confirms my balance rates are all zero, and that both crank and cam signal are present. (but can't show me what they look like)

Crank and cam relearn is not advailable in the options.

I don't mind putting a computer....but people like the dealership just wants to throw it on and do something else if it doesnt work.... that's not how you diagnose electronics IMHO.

Anyone got that code fixed ? Truck runs and drives, just no balance rate.

Anything can help, a sample waveform would be nice to compare with. Or if you can suggest a extremely good duramax mecanic in the Montreal area

 

[brokesmoker]

Bump any more info on this? I have a truck currently doing the exact thing and have tried all the same things and have verified no broken crank


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[Veikra]

As I said, I suspect computer is bad or corrupted. My wiring is beyond a shadow of a doubt perfect.

Truck pulled trailer again yesterday. The tool I need to find is a scan scope to probe both signals. If signals are in tune, computer issue. Else, mecanical engine issue, worn gears or out of spec crank sensor

 

[jlawles2]

I don't remember right off if pulling the oil fill tube will let you feel the cam gear to crank gears.

But is there a way to check the backlash between he 2? Like you said worn gears throwing the 2 sensors out of sync.

 

[Veikra]

i checked both and they are solid.

good idea, hard to reach the gear to check backlash, ill pull the cp3 and then ill get access to cam and it would be free with no load .

 

[Veikra]

Is it possible to see the timing marks by removing the crank pulley? I mean the 2 little dot of the cam and the dot of the crank sprockets ? What if I pull the seal ?



I need to see it, I did buy the truck used, didnt look like it was ever opened but cant find a good technician with the scope to see the problem electrically, So I have to see if it's mecanically on the mark.

 

[DAVe3283]

I think you'd have to pull the whole front cover. I don't think you could see enough through the seal hole. But you could try, maybe with a borescope?


The right answer is to get a scope and watch the 2 sensor outputs and compare to a known working truck, but comparing the marks might reveal a problem too.

 

[ikeG]

The problem with removing the front seal only is that the metal press fit part of the seal will be stuck to the crank snout. So it will not only block your view but will also require you to remove the front cover anyway.

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[Veikra]

The right answer is to get a scope and watch the 2 sensor outputs and compare to a known working truck, but comparing the marks might reveal a problem too.

Yes, but I've not been able to find a mecanic around Montreal with a scope that isnt the dealer. Basically the dealer wants to change my computer, a wiring harness and both sensor at MY COST before using the scope. Changing stuff ramdomly isnt the mark of a good mecanic.



IkeG : Thanks, I didn't know that


This issue is driving me insane, I want it to idle smooth and get my balance rates to show up :s



Anyone with a good independant duramax mecanic with a scope around Montreal please hit me up. Id rather not pull the cover for nothing as I need my truck more often than not.

 

[Bdsankey]

My truck did this exact same thing. Confirmed signals looked good and matched a good well know working truck and I know it is timed correctly (dots lined up). We just turned the code off in tuning.

Is that the best solution? No, but it worked for my truck and the thing runs amazing.

 

[juddski88]

Yes, but I've not been able to find a mecanic around Montreal with a scope that isnt the dealer. Basically the dealer wants to change my computer, a wiring harness and both sensor at MY COST before using the scope. Changing stuff ramdomly isnt the mark of a good mecanic.



IkeG : Thanks, I didn't know that


This issue is driving me insane, I want it to idle smooth and get my balance rates to show up :s



Anyone with a good independant duramax mecanic with a scope around Montreal please hit me up. Id rather not pull the cover for nothing as I need my truck more often than not.

If you don't mind crossing the border into VT, there's some decent shops there that can help you out

 

[Veikra]

My truck did this exact same thing. Confirmed signals looked good and matched a good well know working truck and I know it is timed correctly (dots lined up). We just turned the code off in tuning.

Is that the best solution? No, but it worked for my truck and the thing runs amazing.

Do you get balance rates when doing that? or they still default to zero?



The truck runs good, just got back from pulling this 34' couple hours ago Good but only excellent once at operating temps. It's never perfect as my injectors arent do defaulting to zero makes it imperfect. One injector was at -4 cold in the truck I took them from. Balance rates would smooth it out at idle. And running crank sensor would make it start easier and faster.

The way the sensor is mounted on the crankshaft is like so; if the crankpin driving the sensor and the "gear driving the oil pump" sheared enough but got stuck, you have perfect crank and cam alignment but the sensor is offset. You also won't have any movement.



I bet it's my issue, it's the most likely point of failure. Computers are pretty stout IMHO.



So question is, can I remove the front cover without the upper pan and still manage to put it back and have no leaks...hmm


And is the sheared pin even removable and replaceable without removing the crank, that I don't know.


I might go to a friend in vermont in the next months.

 

[Bdsankey]

Do you get balance rates when doing that? or they still default to zero?



The truck runs good, just got back from pulling this 34' couple hours ago Good but only excellent once at operating temps. It's never perfect as my injectors arent do defaulting to zero makes it imperfect. One injector was at -4 cold in the truck I took them from. Balance rates would smooth it out at idle. And running crank sensor would make it start easier and faster.

The way the sensor is mounted on the crankshaft is like so; if the crankpin driving the sensor and the "gear driving the oil pump" sheared enough but got stuck, you have perfect crank and cam alignment but the sensor is offset. You also won't have any movement.



I bet it's my issue, it's the most likely point of failure. Computers are pretty stout IMHO.



So question is, can I remove the front cover without the upper pan and still manage to put it back and have no leaks...hmm


And is the sheared pin even removable and replaceable without removing the crank, that I don't know.


I might go to a friend in vermont in the next months.

Honestly don’t know on balance rates, never looked. Mine I can guarantee isn’t sheared as it’s keyed as well as the cam.

 

[Veikra]

brokesmoker also has the same issue on a built motor. He has no balance rates. He's probably keyed as well. One tech said it could be from a corrupted tune. My truck could have been tuned by a earlier owner, then put back to normal.

Can EFi live graph those sensors ? Might be good investment if it does that.