Oil analysis questions...

[496 BB]

Just got this back today. Have elevated aluminum AND potassium. Blackstone tends to think its from emissions junk but Id like to see ur thoughts as well. Got me all paranoid now...lol.

Truck has egr unplugged and no dpf for a year now. Has 55k on it. AFE COI. And tuning. Always run the 40hp tune anyways. I did however take this sample on a cold motor. Just pulled into garage from driveway and drained it. Waited a few seconds when draining and took sample. Wasnt eating a banana either.

Anyone else have this?

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[DangerousDuramax]

NEVER take a cold sample. That's an automatic skewing of the test results. Your TBN number is what you want to focus on. The potassium is from a cold sample. The aluminum I would pay attention to because even a cold sample shouldn't have shown that high of an elevation. Next time take a full operating temperature sample and see what it says. And just an fyi...I was getting 24K oil changes using Amsoil and the EA filters. And that can be bumped up to 60K with the bypass system. Oil analysis every 10K came out good and at 20K let me know I still had decent life left in the oil.

 

[jlawles2]

What did they oil analysis look like last time? Have you made any changes to the truck during this oil run?

I would change it and watch to see if it is the same next time. Always run the truck to get the oil temp up before taking the sample.

Yeah Amsoil and their twin filter system is the chit. At 30k i changed the oil, but they told me I could keep running it. Too bad I changed it before the analysis came back.

 

[TheBac]

Moved over to Fluids/Maintenance. Cant help you on the analysis. Have you asked dnewton over at DP yet?

 

[496 BB]

Ok so would a funnel do this? I dont have a dedicated funnel for oil. I usually just wipe em down and spray out with air. Maybe spray with brake clean first before airing out. Would all of that get into oil when Im ADDING the oil? And stay in there for 8k miles?

 

[WVRigrat05]

Ok so would a funnel do this? I dont have a dedicated funnel for oil. I usually just wipe em down and spray out with air. Maybe spray with brake clean first before airing out. Would all of that get into oil when Im ADDING the oil? And stay in there for 8k miles?

It's possible, I usually spray mine with brake cleen and wipe them.

 

[DangerousDuramax]

Ok so would a funnel do this? I dont have a dedicated funnel for oil. I usually just wipe em down and spray out with air. Maybe spray with brake clean first before airing out. Would all of that get into oil when Im ADDING the oil? And stay in there for 8k miles?

Get the test sample pump from Amsoil and it takes the funnel out of the equation. Its really simple to use and inexpensive. The sample bottle screws onto the bottom of the hand pump and then you run the 1/8" hose down the dipstick tube. One little pull and it sucks up enough oil to fill the sample bottle in about 5 seconds. Unscrew the bottle, put the cap on, fill out the paperwork and ship off for analysis. Quick, easy and clean.

 

[DangerousDuramax]

One other thing...when you set up an account with Blackstone, Amsoil, etc they all keep a running record of your vehicle and test results. You can log into your account and pull a history on your vehicle and compare the previous results to the current. Blackstone and Amsoil are really good at letting you know there was a significant difference from your last test result and what to pay attention to. Not only for oil life but abnormal engine component wear. Not sure if this was your first test but if it wasn't go pull your last test and see what the results were. It helps identify and pinpoint when there might be a bearing failure or ring failure in the works.

 

[496 BB]

1st test on this engine

 

[DangerousDuramax]

1st test on this engine

Make sure you setup an account to keep a running log of the test results. Comes in really handy at determining the health of your engine and oil life. Personally I think the high potassium was something else that got in the sample and not really anything to do with a problem with you engine or oil. The high aluminum content was due to a cold sample. I wouldn't worry about it and just make sure to take a normal op temp sample next time. Willing to bet the numbers will come out perfectly fine.

 

[Burn Down]

Make sure you setup an account to keep a running log of the test results. Comes in really handy at determining the health of your engine and oil life. Personally I think the high potassium was something else that got in the sample and not really anything to do with a problem with you engine or oil. The high aluminum content was due to a cold sample. I wouldn't worry about it and just make sure to take a normal op temp sample next time. Willing to bet the numbers will come out perfectly fine.

Please enlighten us as to how a cold oil sample will show elevated alum levels?

 

[Burn Down]

Op, was oil changed at the time of the sample? The Alum, Potassium, and Coolant ? would have me concerned of possible head gasket or egr cooler leak. Burnt coolant can show up as elevated potassium levels and also cause wear on the pistons... I wouldn't freak out yet but I would make sure the oil was changed and a new sample pulled at 3K ish miles. If your going to take it from the oil drain plug make sure you brake clean the pan off well so the sample doesn't get any external contaminants.

 

[DangerousDuramax]

Please enlighten us as to how a cold oil sample will show elevated alum levels?

Pretty simple. A cold sample is unmixed and has been sitting idle. The heavy components settle to the bottom where you're taking your sample from. Taking the sample at this point gives incorrect readings for that reason. This is why all test labs instruct you to take a hot sample. There...now you're enlightened.

 

[WVRigrat05]

We used to have scheduled oil changes on our motors at the rig, now we go off oil analysis, anytime we pull one cold it shows higher contamination, they bitch if the motor or gear boxes aren't at operating temps. We're running some of our c-18's over 1000 hours before an oil change, and they wonder why we're blowing them up at 10k hours.

 

[Burn Down]

Pretty simple. A cold sample is unmixed and has been sitting idle. The heavy components settle to the bottom where you're taking your sample from. Taking the sample at this point gives incorrect readings for that reason. This is why all test labs instruct you to take a hot sample. There...now you're enlightened.

Your not going to see just elevated Alum from a cold sample... You will also see less contaminates as the oil and metal isn't mixed. That is why they tell you to take them with hot oil... How are all the alum wear particles magically ending up at the drain plug? And if you knew anything about the oil pan on a D-max you would also know that you don't ever drain all the oil because the plug isn't directly at the bottom unless you have a Banana or PPE pan... So, all the metal would be sitting at the bottom with the oil that is below the drain.

 

[Digmax]

We used to have scheduled oil changes on our motors at the rig, now we go off oil analysis, anytime we pull one cold it shows higher contamination, they bitch if the motor or gear boxes aren't at operating temps. We're running some of our c-18's over 1000 hours before an oil change, and they wonder why we're blowing them up at 10k hours.

I would never ever extend intervals, for sure on a c18. I think that's the dirtiest engine ever mfg. Does you engine magically get rid of any dirt or soot. My father in law followed his oil analysis recommendations and at 1500 hours they finally told him to change cause of metal or something. Of course he was already losing oil pressure and using oil. Mechanic tore engine down and said he had never seen an engine that totally wore out said everything was shot. Was on a qsx15. he was also running a bypass oil filter.

 

[WVRigrat05]

We used to go 200 hours and ran all cat filters. Then 500, now we run it til the oil looks like charcoal water and run Baldwin filters. We used to get 15k+ hours out of IR 1170 air compressors, now we are wiping them out under 10k.

Drawworks motors have 33k hours on them and had minimal blowby or oil consumption, now they do. It's pretty bad. Not even using synthetic oil, running some cheap off brand shit a vendor brings out in bulk.

We used to go 1000 hrs on our 3512's now they're going like 3000+.

 

[Digmax]

We used to go 200 hours and ran all cat filters. Then 500, now we run it til the oil looks like charcoal water and run Baldwin filters. We used to get 15k+ hours out of IR 1170 air compressors, now we are wiping them out under 10k.

Drawworks motors have 33k hours on them and had minimal blowby or oil consumption, now they do. It's pretty bad. Not even using synthetic oil, running some cheap off brand shit a vendor brings out in bulk.

We used to go 1000 hrs on our 3512's now they're going like 3000+.

It's working probably because of that clean environment. This engine I was talking about is in a versatile 575 articulated tractor in dust most of time.

 

[496 BB]

Explain to me how an egr cooler would contaminate oil. Also charge air cooler as blackstone mentioned. Take it easy Im diesel tech noob. I know what egr does just never had a cooler and dont know how that gets into oil. I assume coolant flows thru it?

 

[DangerousDuramax]

Your not going to see just elevated Alum from a cold sample... You will also see less contaminates as the oil and metal isn't mixed. That is why they tell you to take them with hot oil... How are all the alum wear particles magically ending up at the drain plug? And if you knew anything about the oil pan on a D-max you would also know that you don't ever drain all the oil because the plug isn't directly at the bottom unless you have a Banana or PPE pan... So, all the metal would be sitting at the bottom with the oil that is below the drain.

ID 10 T...thanks...carry on.