New Tax Rate

[Slammed2007Lbz]

your direct quote "People are just jealous they do not make a decent hourly rate and o/t and good insurance that unions offer"

Sounds like someone saying unions are great. If your grandfather was such a great worker imagine what he could he have achieved if he was able to determine his own worth instead of letting a union decide it for him...My point you made a ridiculous statement about a union offering a decent wage when in all actuallity the employer offers a decent wage and benefits, hence why even though you still belong to the union while your layed off your not getting a paycheck.

See here is another thing you dont understand. The union sets a BASE wage for there workers. So if you are a good worker your employer will pay you what your worth so to speak. For example my uncle is a Superintendent for a very very large bridge consruction company, he makes 20.00 more per hour than his carpenter rate. No the news doesnt tell you that... In my case i am a superintendent for a large worldwide company who works in power plants, i make about 25% more than what the guy next to me does because of my skills and reputation. So no your future isnt really determined by the union like most think, you get what you put in just like any other job:thumb:

 

[z79outlaw]

See here is another thing you dont understand. The union sets a BASE wage for there workers. So if you are a good worker your employer will pay you what your worth so to speak. For example my uncle is a Superintendent for a very very large bridge consruction company, he makes 20.00 more per hour than his carpenter rate. No the news doesnt tell you that... In my case i am a superintendent for a large worldwide company who works in power plants, i make about 25% more than what the guy next to me does because of my skills and reputation. So no your future isnt really determined by the union like most think, you get what you put in just like any other job:thumb:

Thanks for enlightening me so much, I've learned a bunch from you...I dont live in a right to work state, I know how unions work, which is exactly why I hate them so much. But comparing a Superintendent to a laborer proves what? That a laborer makes less? No shit, what about a useless laborer and a good one? They make the same. Alot of unions base lead/foreman positions on senority so again the best worker doesnt get more but the guy thats been there forever and still cant do his job makes out great. But again who employs you the construction company your work for? Or the union?

 

[Slammed2007Lbz]

Thanks for enlightening me so much, I've learned a bunch from you...I dont live in a right to work state, I know how unions work, which is exactly why I hate them so much. But comparing a Superintendent to a laborer proves what? That a laborer makes less? No shit, what about a useless laborer and a good one? They make the same. Alot of unions base lead/foreman positions on senority so again the best worker doesnt get more but the guy thats been there forever and still cant do his job makes out great. But again who employs you the construction company your work for? Or the union?

A superintendent and a laborer? Im confused here but im a carpenter and all my guys that work for me as well. No seniority here in our unions:thumb:So you want to be a smartass but really all a superintendent or foreman is is a carpenter who has worked his ass of and nows his shit. The best worker usually gets the higher paying spot. Im not saying in some instances it doesnt work that way, its kind of hard for you to make the statements you claim when you have never worked in my state or area. Maybe thats how the unions work where you live but not here. If the hall sends me out a guy who isnt worth a damn he is done on friday of that week no questions asked. I only work for one company been with them 7 years and have never got a job through the hall so to me im pretty much employed by the company others guys the union hall. If i lose my job i wont work out of the hall. I do a specialty trade that not many carpenters now how to do so im not really a true carpenter but the work i do falls under the carpenter work category i guess you could say.

 

[Ne-max]

Don't waste your time 79 outlaw. He makes all this money compared to us but collects from the gov every winter. He's a real winner in my eyes.

 

[Slammed2007Lbz]

Don't waste your time 79 outlaw. He makes all this money compared to us but collects from the gov every winter. He's a real winner in my eyes.

Who said i made all this money compared to you? All i said is im happy with what i make dude. Whatever im done you guys hate unions and thats fine with me. Enjoy your weekend of that you wouldnt have without the unions...

 

[beach_33]

I have worked both sides. First nonunion bridge company. They treated us fairly well. I work almost all year. Got one weeks paid vacation after a year and as long as I worked enough hrs. They offered insurance but it was pretty expensive. I wanna say 65 dollars a week for just me. Only 80/20 coverage. No kind of retiremen or 401k at all. Now I am in the ironworkers. At first I wasnt a fan and was just doing it for the work but it is better. I make a little less an hour on my check but total package is way better. I have retirement, annuities, and insurance that is 90/10 coverage and cost me about 12 dollars a week. You will never get these people to understand why unions are good. They have it in their heads and wont change it. Even if they get walked all over. Right to work will drive down wages. Say good bye to davis bacon

 

[beach_33]

Also ironworkers at least are put througb a 4 year apprenticeship. We get all kinds of saftey certifications and other certs that make sure that it is quality work. Cant tell you how many times I have had to go back over what a non union worker has done and fixed it.or how many times I have seen nonunion or even when I was nonunion do something very unsafe and put their life at risk and violate so many osha regs its not funny. All because they couldnt tell their boss no im not doing that because they would lose their job

 

[Harbin_22]

Road workers around here, union or not, get laid off in the winter and draw unemployment. Like it or not, thats how it is and always has been.

 

[matt78]

I do mechanical service for a living,fix cooling towers,pumps,chilled water systems,big fans,etc. Most service jobs are non union in texas,but some are,I know some of the union guys they have good stuff and bad stuff where they work just like I do. I have to buy all of my rigging,which is expensive,minus the I beams,but we buy chain falls,trolleys,sockets,wrenches,pullers,etc. They don't,that's a big savings to them,but we get more hourly pay,plus free vacation,so it kind of evens out. Texas is a right to work sate,but there is really no one to hire that wants to learn how to work on this stuff,that's why the pay is high,union or not. Tearing apart some of these machines is a challenge from a rigging standpoint,and knowing how to reassemble one the right way,hours are long sometimes,hot,dirty,etc. I don't mind but bottom line union or not,I have seen shitty guys on both sides,lazy on both sides,not many people seem to want to really work hard anymore. Put it to you this way,if you were 20-21 years old my company would give you a van,used van that yoy take home every night,gas card,phone with internet,medical,401k plus profit sharing after 5 years,and pay for your trade school so you could take night classes,and you can drive your company van to school. Plus you get on the job training,and paid for that,and guys still bitch. My favorite complaint is I can't work this weekend because my wife wants me to take her out to eat,but the guy always says he's broke????????? I work 700-1000 hours ot a year,done that for a long time,all my tools I have purchased,and I got a ton,but that's part of the job. So union or not for my job where I live we need people.

 

[GMC_2002_Dmax]

I have a question for the Union guys.......did you ever figure out your true hourly rate ???

What I am asking is if you work 9 months a year and get laid off for three your actual rate of pay is the total of your 12 months divided by the 52 weeks, divided by the hours you work.

I bet if you figured your pay that way you are not making the rate you think you are because you work 75% of the year.

I won't ever understand the strikes, take Hostess Bakers Union, they would not agree to the terms so they cost 18,500 their jobs and the company went bankrupt !!!! Really smart Union Workers, now they have no job instead of a job making a little less that they wanted..........in my mind a job that is 95% what I want is better than a job I no longer have !!!!

Strikes, do you guys get paid when your on strike ??? Do you guys collect when your on strike ???? Did you ever figure out what it costs you to be on strike in lost pay ???

So you get a 3% raise after all is said and done, at $60k/year gross that is $1,153/week avg over 52 weeks, at 3% of salary/weekly pay/hourly the increase is $1,800 more/year gross, if you strike for more than a week you lost your increase, you gained nothing, in fact the longer the strike goes and the company can keep the doors open and not pay you guys the better they do and the worse you do.

I hardly believe you guys get back pay for being in strike,

I think you guys don't even realize how screwed you get by striking, I just felt I would point that out to you............:hug:

BTW, you would starve in CT where I live on $65K/year, but if it's a kings salary in the midwest then I guess I need to move.

 

[matt78]

Also,as far as union vs non union quaility for my job,not speaking for anyone else,I have seen shit work. Example,we don't rebuild an entire screw compressor in the field,can't ,need a press,other stuff. Johnson controls,used to be york,rebuilds screws in houston,union shop,expensive ,seen them fail. Trane screw compressors,non union,installed some of there rebuilds,failed. Some of these compressors cost 25000-75000 without a markup. Also,I have seen good union pipefitters,have afriend who is one,he even tells me a lot of the newer foremen suck,and I have seen there work as well,some perfect ,some looks like shit. Same for nonunion fitter and welders,I know one our company will not use again,and we know one who does very good work,so with all that said I think the base of the issue comes down to the person doing the job,pride,etc.

 

[LWATSON]

I get tired of hearing non union workers are unskilled. I would guess that the most unskilled labor is actually in the union. They can do shitty work and cant be fired. Theres always skilled union workers to come behind them and straighten out there trainwreck just like it never happened but at a huge cost.

 

[blk smoke lb7]

Thanks for enlightening me so much, I've learned a bunch from you...I dont live in a right to work state, I know how unions work, which is exactly why I hate them so much. But comparing a Superintendent to a laborer proves what? That a laborer makes less? No shit, what about a useless laborer and a good one? They make the same. Alot of unions base lead/foreman positions on senority so again the best worker doesnt get more but the guy thats been there forever and still cant do his job makes out great. But again who employs you the construction company your work for? Or the union?

Last i knew Wis is a right to work state i know Milwaukee is for sure had a ironworker buddy travel there for work when work was scarce where we are,and useless union workers get blackballed.My brother in law (union sheetmetal worker got hurt on the job and took time off on his own when he hurt his arm and i asked why not claim it on workmans comp?He said it was a great company to work for and anyone that gets hurt on the job or claims workmans comp you get blackballed and never asked to come back.I know a guy that gets hurt all the time working for a union pipe fitting company that guy has been blackballed in 2 states now and he is talking about moving to fla.So dont think for a min that the union or company owners dont deal with the scum in the union,they have thier ways.

Don't waste your time 79 outlaw. He makes all this money compared to us but collects from the gov every winter. He's a real winner in my eyes.

What a dick statement!!!! Why would you knock him for being off and collecting unemployment for a few months in the winter.Bridge building doesnt really happen in the winter to much least not in states that get a decent amount of snow and ice.Who wants to be walking the steel in the winter and slip on an icey beam and off you go.

I have a question for the Union guys.......did you ever figure out your true hourly rate ???

What I am asking is if you work 9 months a year and get laid off for three your actual rate of pay is the total of your 12 months divided by the 52 weeks, divided by the hours you work.

I bet if you figured your pay that way you are not making the rate you think you are because you work 75% of the year.

I won't ever understand the strikes, take Hostess Bakers Union, they would not agree to the terms so they cost 18,500 their jobs and the company went bankrupt !!!! Really smart Union Workers, now they have no job instead of a job making a little less that they wanted..........in my mind a job that is 95% what I want is better than a job I no longer have !!!!

Strikes, do you guys get paid when your on strike ??? Do you guys collect when your on strike ???? Did you ever figure out what it costs you to be on strike in lost pay ???

So you get a 3% raise after all is said and done, at $60k/year gross that is $1,153/week avg over 52 weeks, at 3% of salary/weekly pay/hourly the increase is $1,800 more/year gross, if you strike for more than a week you lost your increase, you gained nothing, in fact the longer the strike goes and the company can keep the doors open and not pay you guys the better they do and the worse you do.

I hardly believe you guys get back pay for being in strike,

I think you guys don't even realize how screwed you get by striking, I just felt I would point that out to you............:hug:

BTW, you would starve in CT where I live on $65K/year, but if it's a kings salary in the midwest then I guess I need to move.

Tony ill say it again if the assclowns that ran Hostess hadnt given themselevs 100% rasies during the 1st backrupcy and the workers bent over then to keep their jobs and the onwers made promises to pay back 9 millon in owed dues and such and the take it or leave it was no pay back for the 9 mill and bakers would have gone from 18 an hour (what they were making durning the 1st bankruptcy)to 10 dollars and hour.Funny i dont see management or the leadership of the company taking any paycuts.Lead by example.

I get tired of hearing non union workers are unskilled. I would guess that the most unskilled labor is actually in the union. They can do shitty work and cant be fired. Theres always skilled union workers to come behind them and straighten out there trainwreck just like it never happened but at a huge cost.

I disagree after 4 years of apprentiship you get a pretty decent worker and alot of times they stay helpers if they cant cut it or need more OTJ training and if they still cant cut it blackballed.

 

[lts1ow]

Wait, why does it make sense for you to only work part of the year and then collect unemployment for the rest?

Hell, I would love to take my paycheck, work 3/4 the year and then mooch off the rest of the country that pays me to sit around and worry about it being cold.

Not bashing unions, but, that just doesn't seem fair to the guys who have jobs that you work full year and ya know, save for rainy days?

 

[Ne-max]

Last i knew Wis is a right to work state i know Milwaukee is for sure had a ironworker buddy travel there for work when work was scarce where we are,and useless union workers get blackballed.My brother in law (union sheetmetal worker got hurt on the job and took time off on his own when he hurt his arm and i asked why not claim it on workmans comp?He said it was a great company to work for and anyone that gets hurt on the job or claims workmans comp you get blackballed and never asked to come back.I know a guy that gets hurt all the time working for a union pipe fitting company that guy has been blackballed in 2 states now and he is talking about moving to fla.So dont think for a min that the union or company owners dont deal with the scum in the union,they have thier ways.

What a dick statement!!!! Why would you knock him for being off and collecting unemployment for a few months in the winter.Bridge building doesnt really happen in the winter to much least not in states that get a decent amount of snow and ice.Who wants to be walking the steel in the winter and slip on an icey beam and off you go.

Tony ill say it again if the assclowns that ran Hostess hadnt given themselevs 100% rasies during the 1st backrupcy and the workers bent over then to keep their jobs and the onwers made promises to pay back 9 millon in owed dues and such and the take it or leave it was no pay back for the 9 mill and bakers would have gone from 18 an hour (what they were making durning the 1st bankruptcy)to 10 dollars and hour.Funny i dont see management or the leadership of the company taking any paycuts.Lead by example.

I disagree after 4 years of apprentiship you get a pretty decent worker and alot of times they stay helpers if they cant cut it or need more OTJ training and if they still cant cut it blackballed.

So you think its all right to plan collecting unemployment year after year? Also dont give me that BS that there is no work in the winter. Hell I have a 150 yd bridge pour on tuesday. Like I said before. You are just making excuses to be worthless. I can care less about the union part. They will take themselves out one by one like they did around here. I just dont understand how you guys think that you have a great job when every year you have obama pay ya all winter.

 

[z79outlaw]

Last i knew Wis is a right to work state i know Milwaukee is for sure had a ironworker buddy travel there for work when work was scarce where we are,and useless union workers get blackballed.My brother in law (union sheetmetal worker got hurt on the job and took time off on his own when he hurt his arm and i asked why not claim it on workmans comp?He said it was a great company to work for and anyone that gets hurt on the job or claims workmans comp you get blackballed and never asked to come back.I know a guy that gets hurt all the time working for a union pipe fitting company that guy has been blackballed in 2 states now and he is talking about moving to fla.So dont think for a min that the union or company owners dont deal with the scum in the union,they have thier ways.

Its only right to work for state/public employees. If it was right to work, I wouldnt belong to one. I dont have a choice but to being a lineman unfortunately, and the processes we have to go through to get someone fired because of the union is a terrible long drawn out process, which makes it really unforunate, thanks to the union rules we'd have to take a 40 year old customer service rep that belongs to the union, that doesnt know the job or want to learn the job over someone that could have been a lineman for 15 years but worked for a different union.

 

[TheBac]

Quite a few types of construction/outdoor jobs have the "work 9 months and have 3 months unemployment" arrangement in northern climates. Concrete, asphalt, siding, roofing, lawn companies, etc are examples. Its SOP up here in Michigan. Extending the UE benefits was a mistake. Sure, some people keep looking, but most just sit on their asses and enjoy their extended "vacation" til the end.

Also, gotta love some of the views on unions vs non and the whole "right-to-work" debate. The hate is strong in some of you. Give it a break already. Ive come to see that right to work isnt necessarily a bad thing. Problems comes up if the union contracts are still supposed to cover the guys who wont join or opt out. Talk about getting something for nothing and piggybacking off your fellow workers. In Michigan, it was nothing but political payback, and a ploy to weaken unions thru decreasing operating capital (dues).

 

[blk smoke lb7]

Wait, why does it make sense for you to only work part of the year and then collect unemployment for the rest?

Hell, I would love to take my paycheck, work 3/4 the year and then mooch off the rest of the country that pays me to sit around and worry about it being cold.

Not bashing unions, but, that just doesn't seem fair to the guys who have jobs that you work full year and ya know, save for rainy days?

There are certain things that must be made in order for a guy to get benifits depending on what union you work in, a certain # of hours per week or most of the time its a certain # of hours like 1500 hours a year logged to get your health insureance.

From the owner of the companys stand point if you had 1 guy hurt or 1 life lost because a union roofer installing a metal roof slipped off because of ice snow or rain on the roof,or an ironworker walking iron?Its just a better policy for the business and the workers.Workmans comp is a killer for big companys and so is unemployment tax they have to pay because their workers are off more then the others.I have paid my share of taxes for unemployment and NEVER taken any benifits but you bet your sweet ass if it came to it im gonna collect it if thats what it comes down to.Union workers arent afraid of the cold lol, most ive seen up here dress acordingly and support the Carhart company pretty well.:thumb:

 

[beach_33]

I know it doesn't happen around here in Des Moines which is just as cold as omaha. but some states won't allow bridge work in the winter. At least they won't allow certain phases of the project. What company do you work for I've done a lot of work over there when I was doing bridges. Also not sure why you people think if you're the Union you can't be fired. If you suck at your job you get run off. if you get run of you'll just get to sit and depending on how you get run off you don't just get to draw unemployment. BA's don't just like to send worthless people at work it makes them and the Union look bad

 

[GMC_2002_Dmax]

I really don't see what management doing as far as pay raises having anything to do with the Union Workers scale or rate of pay............management is going to take a raise if they can and why is anyone surprised ??

There is two sides of the story, management got pay raises so the Union digs and goes for broke and gets the company sunk doing so, big deal they wanted to punish the company with demands they knew they were not getting and decided to play chicken and lost, isn't that what the Unions were fighting for, jobs and now they have no jobs !!!

I read that the delivery truck routes were a big problem as the Snack Drivers and the Bread Drivers could not stock the others stores to save time/money because the two were represented by different Unions and it was wasteful and a money loser for Hostess and the Unions would not agree to any changes.

Also most if not all of the other Unions were willing to take the deal but the Bakers would not, now you will see Hostess emerge either from the bankruptcy in pieces or not at all, end of the day the jobs will probably be Non-Union and if those workers want the job back they will have to work for less or stay unemployed.

I know this is a real personal and touchy subject, I also know that a job is just that, a job, and it's only worth so much $$$$/Hour regardless of what a Union wants to get paid for it.

When the cost of the job with all the Federal/State mandated extra's are included like SS tax/Medicare tax, unemployment insurance tax, workers comp tax, liability insurance, vacations, 401K or annuity payments, retired health care workers payments, sick pay, OT pay, the list goes on and on............it's breaking companies backs.

If Unions continue to push they are going to bankrupt municipalities as they are doing in CA and other States like WI, etc.

Breaking Unions is the only way States and Governments see as an end to the ever spiraling costs that grow faster than they can keep up with.

Taxpayers are tapped out, there is no money and Union workers IMHO feel a greater sense of entitlement than private sector workers.......in CT all the state workers and agencies have Unions representing them and the CT Dept of Motor Vehicles as well as the Highway Department are running jokes in the State for how lazy the workers are.

I know it pisses you Union guys off but the public sees Unions as a protection racket for shitty workers who are overpaid and underworked, and as someone who hates the Democratic Party I see Unions as a money laundering operation for the Democrat Party via dues going to political campaigns.