New Progressive Nitorus controler for DRAG RACING

[COMP461]

I have laid out the flow chart for a new single stage progressive nitrous controller .
This controller will have a boost sensor and the ability to work off of TPS

It will have the ability to start at a given boost and percentage or total nitrous flow, and go to 100% at a given boost.

The controller will be simple and programmable on a small LED screen
control up to 2 solenoids . It will also read out Boost

What do you think , and what would you like to see
This will be a fairly inexpensive product . less the $300
.

 

[S Phinney]

A lifetime warranty on it.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[COMP461]

there is nothing a racer can't break .


I use progressive nitrous to add in launching a truck. I try to leave with less boost , and let the nitrous ramp up and set the tire.


The suspension in a drag car or truck uses the weight of the truck and the sudden instant release of torque to drive the tire in to the ground . This is not possible if the suspension is already bound up with brake torqueing to build boost. You see a lot of trucks leave flat knocking the tires off and no weight transfer at all.

With Project X diesel , I use to leave with less boost and allow the suspension to set the tire as additional power was applied. That truck only had around 900 hp and 3500 rpms to work with . That was 9 years ago. I ran a 4.56 , or 4.88 rear gear with a 29 tall Drag radial. It would 60 foot in the high 1.60s and low 1.70s at will . This was a 2WD truck. Best time was a low 11s at 129 mph

 

[WVRigrat05]

My truck can drag logs out of the woods and total plow trucks and do four wheel drive burn outs. Can yours?

 

[DPC]

I have laid out the flow chart for a new single stage progressive nitrous controller .
This controller will have a boost sensor and the ability to work off of TPS

It will have the ability to start at a given boost and percentage or total nitrous flow, and go to 100% at a given boost.

The controller will be simple and programmable on a small LED screen
control up to 2 solenoids . It will also read out Boost

What do you think , and what would you like to see
This will be a fairly inexpensive product . less the $300
.

If possible make it plug and play. I hate splicing into the MAP and TPS.

 

[Hot COCOAL]

I have laid out the flow chart for a new single stage progressive nitrous controller .
This controller will have a boost sensor and the ability to work off of TPS

It will have the ability to start at a given boost and percentage or total nitrous flow, and go to 100% at a given boost.

The controller will be simple and programmable on a small LED screen
control up to 2 solenoids . It will also read out Boost

What do you think , and what would you like to see
This will be a fairly inexpensive product . less the $300
.

If you can make it work and prove its reliable, I'd be down to purchase one of these controllers. N2O is next on my list and a progressive shot is the only way to go IMHO.

 

[DPC]

there is nothing a racer can't break .


I use progressive nitrous to add in launching a truck. I try to leave with less boost , and let the nitrous ramp up and set the tire.


The suspension in a drag car or truck uses the weight of the truck and the sudden instant release of torque to drive the tire in to the ground . This is not possible if the suspension is already bound up with brake torqueing to build boost. You see a lot of trucks leave flat knocking the tires off and no weight transfer at all.

With Project X diesel , I use to leave with less boost and allow the suspension to set the tire as additional power was applied. That truck only had around 900 hp and 3500 rpms to work with . That was 9 years ago. I ran a 4.56 , or 4.88 rear gear with a 29 tall Drag radial. It would 60 foot in the high 1.60s and low 1.70s at will . This was a 2WD truck. Best time was a low 11s at 129 mph

I would be willing to test one out for you.

 

[GSXRTURBO1]

Sounds great!

I have a couple of questions:

will the solenoid frequencies be adjustable?
what is the range of adjustment for the frequencies?
What are the steps/settings of solenoid frequency adjustment?
will relays still be required, or can the solenoids be wired directly to the controller?

I realize it may be premature for these questions, so if they can't be answered yet I totally understand, but these are just a couple of questions I could think of off the top of my head.

 

[GSXRTURBO1]

Also, thinking about it for a minute, $300 is a great price, so it would seem it's going to be difficult to pack it full of features.

I take it that only the most important features are what will be included without all of the bells and whistles that are merely fluff.

 

[COMP461]

Talked with Randy this morning , The frequency will be 100 hertz . This is close to the 75 hertz I use.


The TPS will be tunable as well. I use 15% of throttle to activate

A lot of people miss this part of the ideal tune up on a spool ramp, setting the throttle at 100% so you never get any nitrous on the line , because it never see's the throttle trigger until you launch

RPM Performance Data Logger will be doing this unit. They also have a neat bottle heater /Cooler that keeps the bottle exactly where you want it as well as a nitrous remaining gauge .

 

[DAVe3283]

I would like to see:

• Totally user-definable flow vs. boost & RPM.
  I would want one that flows high when boost is low, then shuts off as I approach full boost. Basically, a spool shot.
  Being totally definable would also let you ramp in the N2O at low boost to spool, then back off during the launch, and ramp back in later in the track once traction is achieved.
• Solid-state.
  Using transistors or MOSFETs to switch the solenoid directly allows better control and less parts to break. Plus, it will hold up to the vibrations better.
  Being solid state would allow adjustment of the PWM frequency over a wider range. The lower the frequency, the less heat is generated in the MOSFETs, so if you designed it for 100 Hz, let the user select 10-100 Hz or so. This would just be software, so it shouldn't increase the cost of the unit much.
• Additional input triggers.
  Allowing it to tap into wheel speed, current gear, or generic 12V or ground triggers to create more tables. Though this kind of feature will probably not be possible for the $300 price you are targeting.

 

[COMP461]

The frequency is pre set its clocked at 100 now. To have it adjustable could make it more expensive makes the controller become a upper end. I have tested solenoids and any appreciable amount more and the seat start to bounce . I personal like 75 any less then around 50 and you do not get a good progressive curve.

This first box will be inexpensive and to the point. I want this box to be easy to use, I have also started to lay out a more complex unit , but I am sure you input would be valued .

Nitrous on a diesel is a wonderful thing. It allows you to make a turbo spool dramatically faster.

I worked on this many years ago and didn't get all that I wanted, so I'm dividing this up as one very simple , and easy to use box at a inexpensive price. The other box will have all of the bells and whistles and be the best nitrous box possible.

for this box , I plan on an intake temperature option. I data log that at the port

one other thought Chris made me think of is a TMAP offset for a little added fuel

so keep up the thoughts

 

[Fingers]

Wow. 100 Hz is very slow for PWM. Typical in modern Automotive is 500-1000 Hz. Only 100 Hz would explain the bouncing off the valve seat. The Solenoid is fluttering. Probably at it's first Harmonic.

 

[COMP461]

75 to 100 is the best area. At 1000 hurtz you get absolute unrepeatable junk . The industry uses between 75 and 100. I use 75 and the flow is very close to linear

 

[Stancedlb7]

I wouldn't mind trying one...

 

[duratothemax]

Wow. 100 Hz is very slow for PWM.

Thats what Allison uses on the 5-speed TCC solenoid!

 

[Fingers]

...and the engine PWM is all 1000 Hz. Depends on the mass of the plunger and how much control you want on the flow, but at 100 Hz, the flow will have significant pulsing.

There are reasons/applications to have pulsed flow. One, and Nitrous may be one, is that the device being controlled only works well at a given pressure. An injector may be that way for instance. The solenoid is actually just turning on-off at a rapid rate as opposed to throttling.

 

[COMP461]

I have tested nitrous solenoids , there is no way they will work at 1000 , there barely work at 200. They like rates as low as 15 to 20 and I like 75 to 100.

That is from testing an actual solenoid on a real nitrous flow bench.



here is a Log off my car . in this log the car launched and then with the wheels in the air rattled the tires . There just was not enough track there with the way I run this car. with decent track conditions it will go right down Broadway.

The top two graphs are the engine RPM and Drive shaft RPM

The bottom has boost and drive pressure , also the long upsweeping line is cylinder temp the Digital is the solenoid pulsing till it going 100% and you can see it drop with the throttle

The nitrous was programed at 15 % flow at 1 PSI boost and 100% flow at 20 psi

 

[GSXRTURBO1]

I think the "Pulsoids" that WON makes may be the exception, but totally agree on the frequencies mentioned.

I had a Compucar setup many years ago, I would have loved to see how those solenoids reacted to pulsing using different frequencies, but quite honestly there would likely be no difference between them and the NOS or Nitrous Express solenoids commonly used.

The Compucar kit I had was a dual plate system that used no jets, the spraybars were "tuned" by Compucar via orfice size and hand ported solenoids. I varied my fuel pressure to "adjust" the output of the system. Burned a plug here and there...