My smoke free winter build

[chevyburnout1]

With my recent crankshaft failure the poor truck is back under the knife again This go round I'll be doing the usual upgrades; Fingers's cast pistons, virgin stock crank, alternate fire cam, etc. But I want to take on a little challenge. I was perfectly happy with the quarter mile and hp of the truck with the old setup so I don't plan on going bigger, however I want to make the truck as smoke free as possible here at 5300ft. I've been EXTREMELY happy with the characteristics of the GT3788R valley turbo and so I'm curious on everyone's input for the atmo. I was almost set on a GT4718R with the .96ar housing but after crunching some numbers it almost seemed like it would be slightly on the small side for enough airflow to be smokefree here at altitude. However I know numbers vs real life tend to differ. Been leaning towards the GT5533r but I'm not sure if it'll make much of a difference when its trying to force it through the small GT37.

For comparison this was my last run at Bandimere. Trying to get the larger charger to light, launching at roughly 30psi in second gear. The large charger is a Comp 88/116 1.21ar which I think is a little worn out. Also blew my stock uppipe at half track lol.

[YOUTUBE]YDiTANrmCGE[/YOUTUBE]

 

[mike diesel]

From my experience at altitude, bigger turbos are always better. I'm on my 4th set of compounds since April....lol

Each time I go bigger, I like it even more. I am extremely impressed with these gt55's. A gtx5533r with 1.0 turbine housing would be a spool machine paired with the gt3788...granted, that's not an idealy sized setup but i think for what you want, it will be great.

 

[chevyburnout1]

I knew I wasn't making the best "match set" when trying to pair a relatively large charger with the gt3788 however I'm not trying to squeeze every bit of hp out of this truck. Just trying to make a great overall daily driver/weekend racer The external gate definitely gets used a lot with this setup. If I can keep consistent high 11's and maybe, maybe, maybe, hit four digit power once, all while doing it smoke free, I will be completely happy!

 

[chevyburnout1]

Glad you chimed in Mike, as that GT5541 video you posted was a large driving factor in my upgrade thinking :hug:

 

[mike diesel]

Well unfortunately the GTX chargers won't sound like the gt5541 since they are 11 blade, but it will still makes lots of power.

 

[chevyburnout1]

I haven't been looking at the GTX series much as I just don't think I could stomach the price, plus I think the GT will work just fine for what I'm trying to accomlish. It may sound stupid but noise is definitely a deciding factor along with power and smoke elimination

 

[Hot COCOAL]

dude, your build is practically on spec for what I want to do as well, this should be interesting! cuz we're practically running the fixed/VVT versions of the same valley charger, and I'm toying with the Idea of a 4718 w/ 1.08ar
it would be cool to see the outcome of two nearly identical builds, with the main factor being one is VVT and the other is fixed...but our altitude difference alone kills any viable data...we'ed have to run on the same dyno, same day

I hadn't thought about pairing a 55 with the 37 tho...
dang, that's A HUGE BITCH!

 

[malibu795]

:happy2:

 

[chevyburnout1]

dude, your build is practically on spec for what I want to do as well, this should be interesting! cuz we're practically running the fixed/VVT versions of the same valley charger, and I'm toying with the Idea of a 4718 w/ 1.08ar
it would be cool to see the outcome of two nearly identical builds, with the main factor being one is VVT and the other is fixed...but our altitude difference alone kills any viable data...we'ed have to run on the same dyno, same day

I hadn't thought about pairing a 55 with the 37 tho...
dang, that's A HUGE BITCH!

It would definitely be cool to see the differences for sure! The truck has been below 1000ft only once and that was when I drove to Oklahoma to buy a boat. Back then I had my worn out 67/88 combo which was horribly smokey/laggy here in Colorado, but down there it was like a stock LB7! Amazing how much the altitude effects it.

Truthfully if I knew for sure that GT4718r would flow enough to keep it smoke free that would be the route I would go, being that it'll be the most closely matched setup with the small 37. However I'm a numbers person, and the hp/airflow calcuations I've been running through are saying it just wouldn't have enough lbs/min. I'm basing this on a 22:1 air/fuel ratio. From what I read roughly 18:1 is when the most power potential but its on the hazy side. Definitely correct me if I'm wrong though as it is just numbers vs real life!

 

[chevyburnout1]

What is your elevation Jason? The whole housing dilemma is hurting my head as well. I'm leaning towards the .96 to try to get it to spool as quick as possible and drive it as far into the flow map as I can. But I'm definitely worried of overspooling. If I was down at sea level there's no way I would run it, but I'm sticking with my 60 overs at a mile high so I feel like the small housing will work. I may even get the new compressor housing machined so I can transfer the speed sensor to the large charger, just to be on the safe side.

 

[mike diesel]

Have you considered a tighter turbine housing for your current 88mm? Like a 1.0? That would wake it up big time.

 

[chevyburnout1]

Truthfully I want to part ways with Comp Turbo. The small charger just didn't seem to like the heat from our trucks and would get worn out quick. The large charger has been chugging along but randomly bent the shaft for an unknown reason back in the day. I'm a big fan of these Garrets so far.

 

[Hot COCOAL]

hey man, I'm at sea level
and you're way more on point on the math side of things, I just go by word of mouth...and constantly ask the dreaded "why"

If I'm not pushing it for what it's worth, when it comes down to it I pretty much go with what's proven. I'd like to think I can look at the pressure maps of different turbos and make a valid decision, but I can admit it's more guesswork to get me close, than valid, data or even math based conclusion

However I decided to buck the "norm" and kept the CR of my Pistons closer to stock @ 16.5/1 instead of dropping nearly a full point to 16/1, I figure it's a good CR for all climates and altitudes and it will generate better spool, leading into going with a slighter looser AR if I went with a 4718 of 1.08, I "figure" with being at sea level and maintaining the slightly higher CR, using a 1.08 ar on the 47 would keep the spool up quick and still flow a ton in the mid and top end and not choke or taper out and haze or smoke..l because I too want clean power, and it has nothing to do with being a tree hugger environmentalist or caring about what the guy behind me thinks (although I do pretty much care about all those things)

no, it's cuz clean power is MAXIMIZED power, clean is efficient, clean is, and SAVES GREEN, in many ways



lol
I still think a 4294 would be a good "big single" and even could be a good charger as a twin w/stock, however I'm not going to be the guinea pig for it, and wouldn't suggest it cuz it's not proven and I can't calculate it's "real world" potential.

I do know Mark told me He'd use a 55 all day, over a 47, and I'm pretty sure he would even use a bullseye turbo, what are those, Borg based, right, so a bullseye s500 frame turbo...I guess

at that point I think there's numerous wheel (ind/exd) options to go with and its enough to make you dizzy, so you call up Mark and say, hey man, this is where I'm at with my dillusional logic, what's your professional opinion, better yet, just tell me what to buy:thumb:
:roflmao:

and did you bring up a speed sensor, as in a shaft speed sensor?
there's another topic Mark brings up ALOT, drive speed/pressure and shaft speed relationship, to LBS/min and volume of air moved and fuel burned...and my brain gets burned by the time he's done trying to relay and relate his knowledge and experience with me...

He's a good dude to talk to! I've learned a lot from him over the last couple years and I love the Chargers he makes :thumb:

 

[chevyburnout1]

I love crunching numbers and staring constantly at turbo flow maps. I have plenty of time doing that however I still don't have enough real world testing to verify the paper numbers. So I rely on this fabulous forum filled with wonderful individuals to help out with real world testing!

I truthfully have yet to think about compression ratio for this new build, or even camshaft grinds for that matter!! One step at a time really. Tackling full throttle airflow first then working my way down to spoolability. Mike's suggestion on tightening up my housing I'm sure would make this setup a lot better if I was in a rush to get it back.

...and yeah I have a shaft speed sensor installed on the 37. That and a drive pressure gauge. COMPLETELY worth the money in regards to this setup. Especailly how easy it is to overspool the 37 with a .89ar housing. The plan will be to machine the large charger to accept the speed sensor, then build a plug so I can swap the sensor between the two chargers. Adjust the gate to keep the small charger from overspinning, then verify the turbine housing on the large charger isn't too small and spinning outside it's map. Turbo speed, drive pressure and the atmo psi are definitely the most watched gauges!

 

[chevyburnout1]

Soooo with the engine build underway I THINK I have decided to take a chance and see how the GT5533r will work. HOWEVER there are two MORE choices to go with that selection: a 47 trim and a 49.5 trim... Either a 91mm inducer or a 94mm inducer basically. The flow maps definitely reflect a difference but I am just not sure what would work better. My assumption is the large charger is going to be running at a higher pressure ratio than a typical matched setup trying to force through the small charger. The old setup was close to a 50:50 split in boost pressures at max fueling without overspeeding the 37. If that's the case then the smaller 47 trim appears to suit it better.

 

[nwpadmax]

FWIW, a GTX50 would be an upgrade over the GT47 and would potentially come up quicker than a GT55. The 55 has an excellent turbine, one of the best GT wheels, and the 50 spawned directly from it.

The pairing is pretty good....Cat used this combo on their C13 Acert semi engines. They had some issues with that particular engine that the over the road guys crab about, but those would not extend to that setup in a pickup.

 

[chevyburnout1]

I'm still waiting on pricing for a few of these chargers including a few GTX options, but I just don't think I could stomach the GTX price on top of the engine build. Plus to add to my awesome finances I just got out of the hospital, sounds like I have to have my gallbladder removed.

I know I can upgrade the GT5533 to a GTX compressor setup later on if I need to once the truck is back on the road.

 

[chevyburnout1]

Well finally got some pricing from my Garret vendor and apparently the GT5533r has been discontinued in both trims... was told the GTX series took its place completely. And supposedly the GT4718 is only available in journal bearing now I'm waiting for an email straight from Garrett to verify that I didn't get someone in weekend mode. If that's the case though I may just do what Mike said and get a smaller exhaust housing from Comp Turbo in the mean time to get this engine build done. It's been a trooper and will eliminate one more thing from my build list at the moment.

 

[chevyburnout1]

Well Garrett confirmed it today. They said they're in the transitional stage and will be cleaning up their website to reflect it. The GTX series is taking over a lot of the higher framed chargers. They also recommended as well the GTX5018 as a good selection and a more efficient setup compared to the GT4718.

So it's a GTX5018 with either a .96 or 1.06 housing, or just swap to a 1.0a/r housing on my Comp charger. Talk about a few grand decision.... :roflmao:

 

[mike diesel]

The gtx5018 would be a sweet charger. I almost traded my s500 for a billet wheel gt5018 journal bearing charger but decided against it. If it was a GTX, I would have been all over it.