LB7: motor gone

mytmousemalibu

Cut your ride, sissy!
Apr 12, 2008
2,230
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Kansas
you know, back when i had my old bully dog PMT, i went to the track and made some runs... well i mixed me up some 50/50 mix and turned the system up all the way and set the PMT as high as it goes...I injected prolly 1 1/2qt of mix in a single pass :eek: Man it ran hard till the tranny limped:rofl: prolly pretty lucky i didn't torch it right there! 180k miles on it too! And now with the currant mods and recent lift pump, i guess i better watch my ass now! I need to spend some quality time with the laptop/EFI and make me a safer power tune! NO big hurry now, she's just started cosmetic work! You guys will see a whole differant truck here soon:D :secret:
 

stroke250

I May Be Lost...
Jul 1, 2008
490
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Idaho
i'm thinking the water/meth, whether it be one or both, was the main culprit in this instance.
 
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NWTDIESEL

On a Time Out
May 8, 2008
1,405
0
0
ATS Extreme trans
He didnt have any meth in the tank, just straight water. Im 99% sure that water alone will make cylendar pressure. Tune should have been changed a lil. a drug is a drug no matter what it is.
 

stroke250

I May Be Lost...
Jul 1, 2008
490
18
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Idaho
He didnt have any meth in the tank, just straight water. Im 99% sure that water alone will make cylendar pressure. Tune should have been changed a lil. a drug is a drug no matter what it is.


edited my last statement and yes, i agree with you.
 

McRat

Diesel Hotrodder
Aug 2, 2006
11,249
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Norco CA
www.mcratracing.com
We do not change the tune for pure water or up to 30% ethanol.

But it doesn't make significant power on the dyno, 5HP? Not sure where they get their wild claims from, but I use it to help cool the pistons. I spray in about 1 pint per 1/4mi pass triggered at 25PSI boost. Not all racing organizations allow it, so check first.

There are some folk who think there might be a connection, but for now, most the trucks with cracked pistons are not running water.

The way the SCTA (LSR) handles water injection, is you must show up in tech with an empty water tank. Then you must pour water from a sealed container into the tank, then they seal the tank. You must go back to tech to get refilled. I think the sled pullers should adopt that procedure for those who feel safer running some water.
 

slowlmm

New member
Mar 2, 2008
2,582
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so cal
We do not change the tune for pure water or up to 30% ethanol.

But it doesn't make significant power on the dyno, 5HP? Not sure where they get their wild claims from, but I use it to help cool the pistons. I spray in about 1 pint per 1/4mi pass triggered at 25PSI boost. Not all racing organizations allow it, so check first.

There are some folk who think there might be a connection, but for now, most the trucks with cracked pistons are not running water.

The way the SCTA (LSR) handles water injection, is you must show up in tech with an empty water tank. Then you must pour water from a sealed container into the tank, then they seal the tank. You must go back to tech to get refilled. I think the sled pullers should adopt that procedure for those who feel safer running some water.

Thts exactley wht i was runnig mine for egts nothing more. newly im not sure wht your banging at and if you would like to look at a log you can. 27 degrees max timeing is way less then i ran before. there would be no point to go lower in timeing with just water imo. the water strts at 25 psi and cuts off at 35 psi. this was not the reason why my piston craked imo there was way more stress at the sled pull then then a 1/8th mile race my mpg has been going down for the last month or so and a few other things i have not talked about have been going on with the truck. I knew in the back of my mind it was on its way out. you keep saying theres all theese trucks running big power and not breakng but the fact is they are breaking ben mike me josh and 3 others i know of . this is just the limit of theese pistons. or mabey its a hot oil issue mabey its something else. the fact is big power breaks stuff and thts wht happend. shit theres even some mild tuned trucks tht have broken latley . My truck made it over 56,000 hard miles and was driven on one tune the whole time as big as i can. IM sorry i just feel your takeing some jabs at nick and i think it needs to stop. the truck broke its defniatley not his fault if any ones its my own trucks broke. now its time to fix it thts it :) fish smith sorry for the off topic in your thread and i hope all is going well with the build just seemd i needed to clear something up :)
 

stroke250

I May Be Lost...
Jul 1, 2008
490
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Idaho
this maybe a dumb question, but slowlmm, did you have the dual fueler on at this time? or have you not installed it yet?
 
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slowlmm

New member
Mar 2, 2008
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Interesting...my truck's MPG started getting really crappy a month and a half or so before it blew too.. :confused:

ben


Really ben ? mabey its something to look into as well and see if theres any coralation. fish smith you notice any thing like lower mpg or any thing elses ?
 

NWTDIESEL

On a Time Out
May 8, 2008
1,405
0
0
ATS Extreme trans
Slowlmm PM sent.

Your injecting water into your trucks motor.......its a drug. Not taking jabs at anybody. Your assumtion. Holy shit? You take jabs at me bout my nitrous and i didnt get all butt hurt. Thought it was all in fun but guess i cant play.

Good luck with rebuild and sorry for the off topic fishsmith.
 
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duratothemax

<--- slippery roads
Aug 28, 2006
7,139
10
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Wyoming
Tommy have you measured your rods? My rods were about ~.010-.015 short, which I guess might create lower compression which might decrease MPG?? Who knows.

What was very wierd is the other patterns taht occured in the last 2 months or so of my stock engine's life:

huge decrease in MPG

and the following issues mentioned below would only happen "sometimes" then go away, maybe 3 times a week, or the truck would act up for 2 days straight, then be fine for 5 days etc:

random sporadic idle surge; sometimes really severe associated with eye-watering raw fuel smell from the exahust and whisps of white smoke even when warmed up, like if I was driving and came down to a stop light. I would check my balance rates when it was doing this and 1 or 2 of the cylinders would be way out of whack (+8 or +9 or so). The others would be at the higher end of the "allowable" spectrum, but still barely within spec. Then the next 2 days the truck would be fine and all balance rates normal. Then it would do a slight surge, then be fine, then do 2 days of the really noticible surge. Then it would go back to running perfectly smooth.

I thought it was an injector going bad. "it cant be an internal problem, because then it would exhibit the condition ALL the time, not just sporadicly, so it MUST be an injector" I told myself. :rolleyes:

The day it died, we drove 3 hours to a dyno, beat the crap out of it, insane EGT's, 20 second pulls, basically being REALLY stupid loading the truck in effort to get the turbo to spool to full boost on the dyno. Turned out the exhaust evac system they had was so small that it was probably acting like a big plug in the exhaust pipe.

But the truck didnt die on the dyno, we drove 3 hours back to school, and the truck felt a lot weaker, like I was driving with the fuel pressure releif valve partially opened. We messed around on some back roads and I had no idea what was wrong with it. 10 minutes away from school I went WOT to keep my buddy in his LBZ from passing me, downshifted 5-4, ~3000rpm, EGT's started climbing and I think I was passing through 1200 or so when I heard the muffled pop as she let go.

I wish I could have taken apart the engine 10 seconds before it blew (the period when it was still running fine but way down on power) and seen what it looked like; ie what caused the power to suddenly drop off, if there was a hairline crack leaking just a little bit of pressure into the crankcase, etc...I have no idea.

I beleive its EGT's. MAYBE combined with timing, but I think mostly EGT's. The timing bends the rods, but I think the EGT's do the pistons in. As I said, 2 cracked all the way through, and 3 had huge developing cracks. Some of the developing cracks were NOT parallel or perpendicular to the wrist pins. Some were at 45* to the wrist pin, etc... The two that cracked all the way through were parallel to the wrist pin.

Which leads me to another big question that I dont think anyone has mentioned yet.

Does piston to cylinder wall clearance play a factor in this??? Has anyone taken apart some stock motors and seen if the clearance is consistant between factory motors? Do EGT's make the pistons expand to the point where they "bind" on motors built with tighter clearances etc?? OR maybe as the rods compress/bend slightly it changes dwell at TDC a little bit, or maybe stresses the piston in some other way? I have no idea, just throwing some dumb ideas out there.

ben
 
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Stingpuller

The Pusher Man
Jan 11, 2007
2,019
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central Ohio
Blown motors

I also wondered if piston to wall clearance or ring end gap was part of the problem also. I got slammed some time back for asking if there was marks on the cylinder wall. Almost all that had piston problem had scuff's on the walls. Some had the piston's burn a hole which would scuff so hard to tell if it was there before the piston let go. Some just had pistons starting to go and had marks on the walls also which tells me there was problems starting before the piston went south. I will say one thing for sure, My new motor will have a LOT of clearance on the pistons and ring gap! I think "dumb ohio hillbilly thinking" alot of the piston problems are from all of use running stock motors(clearance wise) and high egt's. Things will expand and if not enough room things get ugly in a hurry. Jeff
 

duratothemax

<--- slippery roads
Aug 28, 2006
7,139
10
0
Wyoming
I also wondered if piston to wall clearance or ring end gap was part of the problem also. I got slammed some time back for asking if there was marks on the cylinder wall. Almost all that had piston problem had scuff's on the walls. Some had the piston's burn a hole which would scuff so hard to tell if it was there before the piston let go. Some just had pistons starting to go and had marks on the walls also which tells me there was problems starting before the piston went south. I will say one thing for sure, My new motor will have a LOT of clearance on the pistons and ring gap! I think "dumb ohio hillbilly thinking" alot of the piston problems are from all of use running stock motors(clearance wise) and high egt's. Things will expand and if not enough room things get ugly in a hurry. Jeff

oh good, cause mine somehow ended up with a "lot" of piston-cyl wall clearance. Maybe because the block has 300k on it and was honed gave it a smidge extra? I was surprised how much I could move the pistons around side to side in the bores. But then again I had never built a "real" engine before, so I dunno if thats pretty normal, or if mine was a little looser than normal????