Max Boost for LLY?

02freighttrain

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Aug 13, 2006
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This has been discussed, but what's the theory on max boost for a LLY charger and make it live?

I've heard of some big number's on trucks with lot's of mods, and they are living. 40+:eek:
Drive pressure reduction could be a factor with exhaust manifold and up-pipe mods. What you say?
 

whitetrash21

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Apr 29, 2008
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it survive until it go boom..... caveman has spoken, it is done :D

scuse my donation of .... nothing. :D
 

whitetrash21

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found a couple generic posting online saying 35-37 psi. not sure how legit they are.....

here's one...
I beleive 23 PSI is the maximum that it will command, but products such as PPE's Boost controller can take it up to 40 PSI. However the design nature of the VVT makes it useless at that much boost. The drive pressure for the turbo exceeds 80 PSI at 40 PSI of boost so you are creating more back pressure than boost and therefore robbing a lot of power from the engine. The max boost you can make with a stock LLY hairdryer and still be efficent/useful is around 32-34 PSI.
 
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JoshH

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found it :D
http://www.mde.cc/download/GarrettLLY.pdf

@ ~65lbmin and 42psi is the limit of the LLY stock charger acording to the compressor map.
How do you get that? It looks to me like the max boost is approx. 45 psi and that is at about 45 lbs/min. At 65 lbs/min it looks like the limit is closer to 30 psi. That is assuming you have 15 psi in front of the compressor wheel (which is unlikely).
 

JoshH

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2.8 pr(42psi) @ 65lbmin is sitting right at 65% efficiency
that is the most air you are going to get out of it.
2.8 pressure ratio means absolute pressure so 2.8 x 14.7 = 41, meaning absolute boost including barometric pressure. On a gauge it would read 26.5 psi.
 

malibu795

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Apr 28, 2007
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2.8 pressure ratio means absolute pressure so 2.8 x 14.7 = 41, meaning absolute boost including barometric pressure. On a gauge it would read 26.5 psi.

dammit forgot a letter psi(a) :eek: 45psia is about the limit.. not 45psig;)


f'k my spelling is making me look stupid :banghead: i need to slow down....
 

JoshH

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dammit forgot a letter psi(a) :eek: 45psia is about the limit.. not 45psig;)


f'k my spelling is making me look stupid :banghead: i need to slow down....
I was hoping that's what you meant, but I wanted to make sure it was clear to everyone else. :hug:
 

Killerbee

Got Honey?
2.8 pressure ratio means absolute pressure so 2.8 x 14.7 = 41, meaning absolute boost including barometric pressure. On a gauge it would read 26.5 psi.

Careful, wish it was that easy Josh.:)

PR=COP/CIP,

COP=plenum boost (MAP) plus plumbing losses (3 psi for us)
CIP=inlet pressure in absolute

A lot of people just use 14.x psia for CIP, and this is wrong. CIP must be determined experimentally. For an LLY, the plumbing losses are extravagant, 4-5 psi at stock levels, 8 psi at choke levels of airflow. This number gets subtracted from ambient pressure. If you are in Denver, ambient is 12 psia, and CIP=12-4=8 for stock flow, or 12-8=4 psi for 30 psi boost (42 psi MAP).

Now you can apply this to the compressor map, using a PR=COP/CIP=(30+12+3)/4=11.2...yes 11.2 :eek: that's in Denver.

Back near sea level, PR=(30+14.2+3)/(14.2-8)=7.5

The heat produced by the PR of 11, is a lot more than that produced at 7, hence altitude induced CAC overheating.:villagers:

These boost settings cannot be used for towing, for obvious reasons. A year ago, I condemned boost devices on the stock LLY because they don't discriminate. Until you can get rid of the inlet restriction, don't use boost higher than 28 psi, 24 psi at higher elevations, subjective opinion. These numbers still plot off the map, but they at least won't leave you stranded.

FWIW, even stock boost is off the map at elevation. And yes, this is the reason for LLY ECT control issues.
:bdh:
 

JoshH

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Yeah, I was just assuming ideal conditions with no pressure drop in front of the compressor wheel. Like you pointed out, there's a lot more to it, but in my post I was just posting the absolute best case scenario.
 

Killerbee

Got Honey?
It shows just how worthless the map is unless using it correctly, that was probably my main point.

To emphasize the heat issue, the compressor makes heat according to the formula, COT=CIT X PR^.28

A PR of 6 makes 30% more heat than a PR of 4, for example. Restriction causes this, and it kills power.

CIT=IAT
COT=comp out temp.

PR is the God, keeping it down (along with IAT) is essential. Restriction is the anti-christ that flames all this.
 
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