Looking for a mini-split for my garage

[Chevy1925]

Anyone on here who can help a brotha out on what a decent 36k btu mini split would be? going to put a/c in my garage as the shop build has been put on hold for the time being (costs are nuts). I had it fully insulated including the doors and this one is big enough i dont have to open the doors to work on things. i was looking at Mr Cool's but seems they are just about everywhere. id like to stay in the 2500 price range, single zone, diy kit style and will need about 50 ft of line to get the air handler where i want it along with the condenser where i want it. My brother was saying Fujitsu were pretty decent. 16 seer seems to be the going seer for that size as well.

Thoughts?

 

[2004LB7]

I've done a bit of research in this area and just recently finished installing four of them in my house. While Mitsubishi and Fujitsu are arguably the best, they do cost two to three times more and require certified installers for any warranty so that makes them about 4x the cost.

Those two along with Daikin are made in Japan while most all others Midea, Gree, MrCool, Carrier, etc are made in china. Then there is LG and Samsung out of S Korea. Since there is no US made units you will have to pick from one of these

I went with Pioneer as they are owned buy a USA company Parker Davis and their prices where good or better then I was finding elsewhere. They stock their air conditioners i a warehouse somewhere in Florida

You will likely need to have a few oz of R410a refrigerant added to the system for that long of a run. I did a 50' run my living room and it needed 5 1/2 oz extra. A 36k btu unit may need more so factor that in if you want to install it yourself

These units are not hard to install yourself and you can save a lot that way. You could literally buy one of the cheaper brands several times over and still be ahead by the time the Mitsubishi or Fujitsu needs replacement

You could go with this system for $2500 https://www.pioneerminisplit.com/co...oner-heat-pump-230-vac?variant=14703003566122

And add a flushing kit if you want to install it yourself. Along with a gauge set. Or you can have an HVAC tech come out to do the final vacuum and charge for you

 

[Chevy1925]

The plus side is my brother is a HVAC tech for schnider and he will be helping me on the install. hes got R410a on the truck and says it should be no issue for him. He recommeded a bosch 30k unit where it looks like i can get a pioneer 36k unit for the same price. Little less seer but the volume of air it will cool i think far out weighs that lol.

how do you like them so far?

 

[2004LB7]

They seem to be running good. Only finished the last unit last weekend. Typically have them set to 80° and the house feels nice. Set the fan to auto and it stays on low most of the time as it keeps the temps stable. Only time it ramps up is during cooking or if I have the doors open for too long letting the heat in. Otherwise you can barely tell its running. My living room init is only a 12k btu and bedrooms are 9k each.

I used the ceiling cassette in the living room for a less intrusive look and the wall units in the bedroom. The cassette definitely cost more then the wall units but look much better in my opinion. My not work in a shop though.

What kind of setup are you doing that will require a 50 foot run? Trying to get the head in the middle of the shop? How did you figure you needed 36k btus? Not saying your wrong, just curious about your calculations on heat load

 

[2004LB7]

He recommeded a bosch 30k unit where it looks like i can get a pioneer 36k unit for the same price. Little less seer but the volume of air it will cool i think far out weighs that lol.

Remember, these units are variable compressor so they can ramp up and down as needed and the btu rating the spec them at is nominal. The pioneer unit I linked above can to 15,480~48,960 BTU/h so it has a bit higher "reserve" btus. Check this against other brands. The ones that can "throttle" down the lowest will net you the best efficiency since they will run at the lowest needed to keep the temps stable. If the low end of the range is not low enough then the unit will have to cycle on and off hurting efficiency. Compare it to the Bosch unit and see what is can do. Not too many manufacturers will give you this information or make it harder to find. That was one of the reasons I went with Pioneer as the information was up front on their site. When I asked some questions they answered them without trying to up sale me like another did

 

[Chevy1925]

I want to put the condenser close to the house unit. it will be easiest to run power that way and not have this "block" hanging out in the front yard. Im also oversizing the unit for the 115* heat the garage will have as it wont be running all the time, only on days i want to work in the garage. So an hour or so before i go out, ill kick it on and let it cool down in there to 80-85*. i want to make sure it cools down, not take half the day to get there and then have my wife forget, open the garage and then loose all the cool air. the garage its self is 850 sq ft with a dual pane window. While everything is insulated with 2x6 framing and the garage doors as insulated as well as the ceiling (r38 ceiling, r19 walls), its going to take some knock down to get temps down to where id like it. 15k btu shouldnt be an issue for the not so perfect seals around the garage doors, high outside heat, and the possible heat of a vehicle coming inside.

my dad oversized his unit in his detach but only slighly based off "calcs" for outside heat and not running it all day (central air, not a mini split). problem is, the moment you open a 14ft tall door, bring a hot vehicle in, and try to get the place cooled down, it just dont happen. it will take a couple hours of running to finally get temps back down.

 

[Mikey52]

And they had the service manual as a pdf.

 

[2004LB7]

I want to put the condenser close to the house unit. it will be easiest to run power that way and not have this "block" hanging out in the front yard. Im also oversizing the unit for the 115* heat the garage will have as it wont be running all the time, only on days i want to work in the garage. So an hour or so before i go out, ill kick it on and let it cool down in there to 80-85*. i want to make sure it cools down, not take half the day to get there and then have my wife forget, open the garage and then loose all the cool air. the garage its self is 850 sq ft with a dual pane window. While everything is insulated with 2x6 framing and the garage doors as insulated as well as the ceiling (r38 ceiling, r19 walls), its going to take some knock down to get temps down to where id like it. 15k btu shouldnt be an issue for the not so perfect seals around the garage doors, high outside heat, and the possible heat of a vehicle coming inside.

my dad oversized his unit in his detach but only slighly based off "calcs" for outside heat and not running it all day (central air, not a mini split). problem is, the moment you open a 14ft tall door, bring a hot vehicle in, and try to get the place cooled down, it just dont happen. it will take a couple hours of running to finally get temps back down.

Well in that situation I wouldn't be looking at a higher SEER unit. Because it will almost never run in low btu mode which is where the high SEER comes from. Instead it looks like you are going for ease of installation and cost more than efficiency. You can also go with a dual or triple zone unit and place each unit in different locations for better cooling distribution

Or you can put a few of those PTAC units in which may do a better job for your purpose and doesn't require any HVAC tech to install

https://www.frigidaire.com/Home-Comfort/Air-Conditioning/PTACs/FFRP152LT3/

 

[2004LB7]

So 110° outside today and my house stayed right at 80° where it was set. Only the living room unit had it's condenser fan running with the others in idle

 

[Chevy1925]

Yeah the dual or triple zones won’t help much. If there was a side that saw constant sun, a dual would probably be preferred but the garage is east facing and on the north side of the house. Only about a 1/3 is exposed to late afternoon sun so I have a lot of things on my side.

Those ptac units would take up room I’d rather not give up. The mini split will be nicely up and out of the way. Cost isn’t much different either it seems.

I think I’m gunna lean heavily toward that pioneer unit. I’m likin it more and more

 

[2004LB7]

Sounds good

 

[darkness]

Just curious James, why not a swamper? Do you have higher humidity there than we do here in Vegas? The garage might be insulated but still the most inefficient room in the house. Garage door seal, suicide vents, water heater exhaust (if gas and if it’s even in the garage). Plus not planning an hour ahead to pre cool just let the swamper eat.

 

[2004LB7]

^^^ yep. Evaporative coolers will probably give you the best bang for the buck if your RH on the hot days is low enough to support their use

 

[Chevy1925]

ive been using a swamp cooler for years. i have a nice big ass one i roll around. i open the garage, pull the release cord, drop the door onto the cooler right at the front of the vent area, plywood to block most of the open garage and open the third garage a smidge to circulate air. It works well at 100* or less temps and low humidity but when its over that, you start feeling that temp unless the cooler is blowing right on you. That i dont mind, i can work around that without issue but when the humidity comes in mid july, it dont do a thing. i usually cut the water flow way back and just point the sucker at where ever im working to try to keep the sweat down.

garage wise, mines pretty well sealed. Enough the garage doors are taking the paint off the inner walls from where it rests against them when closed lol. no vents for WH as its electric and no suicide vents. im 90% sure this garage is more sealed up than the 1979 house we lived in before What i plan to do with the mini split is put it on a wifi thermostat so i can control it from my phone. that way when i know im in the garage after work, i can click it on an hour or so before and get things cooled down.

my brother suggested an exhaust fan to run at first to pull the hot air out but the garage is still cooler than outside in the heat of the day, specially if Erin has not driven anywhere and no hot cars inside. I think ill try without it and go from there. i do have to make some "scrubbers" for when im grinding and welding to keep from smoking the place up. some box fans and cheap a/c return filters works well for that.

 

[darkness]

Yeah I’m well versed on the cons of a swamp cooler during monsoon season. Usually the month of August for us. My parents have a piggyback system on their house. The a/c hasn’t worked for as long as I can remember lol.

 

[2004LB7]

when the humidity goes up nothing will cool as well as an actual air conditioner. they will cool and dehumidify at the same time which increases comfort on both fronts. just be cautious of over sizing it as that can cause it to short cycle and not dehumidify properly. then it will feel cool and clammy. If the temps go down but you don't remove any moisture then the RH will go up. luckily mini splits are harder to over size because of the throttling capabilities but see if you can run some heat load calcs before settling on a btu size

edit, just punched in the information you gave us into an online calculator and a 36k btu mini split will likely be the best fit