Yes we have but without getting beat down by big oil and fluid companies all I would like to say is like I stated above of our current setup going forward.
Little Product testing on the Engine Dyno Results
- Thread starter EDP
- Start date
Yes we have but without getting beat down by big oil and fluid companies all I would like to say is like I stated above of our current setup going forward.
We wrapped up the 62-64mm turbo testing with 60% injectors. I will try and post some video and the data here as well.
- From the turbo's we tested the most came in around the 680 area. At this time I will be keeping some of the results under the hat for customer proto type confidentiality reasons. All units where journal bearing setups. Two turbos where able to surpass the 700 mark impressively was the HTT64 T-4 based unit. That came in right at a little over 700. Hands down the top dog in the battle was the New Borg 300sx from High Tech Turbo. This unit not only took the cake but it put some pretty good distance on the next in line at almost 50hp over it at 747hp. Not only was thing impressive in power gains but also on the spool up time and how quick it got with the program. The initial instance of load being put on the motor this turbo wanted to get up and get going. Price point to power gains this turbo needs to be looked at heavily in your turbo upgrade decisions. We have not put this unit to the street yet but from our experience this setup would be a very street able 680-700hp rear wheel tire truck.
All testing was done with same room temprature, and same setup we left off at with the stock unit.
-The motor seemed like it was in good health and with intentions on tearing the motor down and upgrading the bottom end we decided to see just how much fight this motor has left in it, we had a Precision 71mm laying around so on it went. Right out of the gates it went to 800 with the same tuning as the 300sx and if you didn't know any better you would have thought it was a nitrous pass by the lack of smoke. We then had the guys at Duramaxtuner bump the tune up 200mm3 350mm3 and then 450mm3. Tune 200 took it right up to 837hp and same thing clean no smoke pass egt's up past 1800, bumped it up to the 350 and it went up to 850, again same thing seemed way to clean and way to hot. So she got the next bump in tune and did not sound good half way through run and would not really push past the 740 area. When your down power from one pass to the next by a lot is usually a good sign something is not happy! This project has been a very informative for us and I hope our findings find it helpful to you guys as well. In the end I can not praise the solid tuners out there helping us reach the power levels we are seeing on these things. If anything we should take from this is no matter built motor or stock setups Good quality tuning makes for a solid end result and engine life. I Could not be more pleased with the tuning support on this project from Bob, Mike and Nick. With these guys we where able to make 90+ passes on a 280,000 mile junk yard Duramax and keep testing consistent from one pass to the next.
Stay tuned we will be putting together a good solid street style motor and continuing product testing after the first of the year. In the meantime we have a good handful of customers we need to get tuned in with the dyno. We may be dropping back in time to time if we come across some interesting information. Thanks guys and if you have any questions feel free to ask.
- From the turbo's we tested the most came in around the 680 area. At this time I will be keeping some of the results under the hat for customer proto type confidentiality reasons. All units where journal bearing setups. Two turbos where able to surpass the 700 mark impressively was the HTT64 T-4 based unit. That came in right at a little over 700. Hands down the top dog in the battle was the New Borg 300sx from High Tech Turbo. This unit not only took the cake but it put some pretty good distance on the next in line at almost 50hp over it at 747hp. Not only was thing impressive in power gains but also on the spool up time and how quick it got with the program. The initial instance of load being put on the motor this turbo wanted to get up and get going. Price point to power gains this turbo needs to be looked at heavily in your turbo upgrade decisions. We have not put this unit to the street yet but from our experience this setup would be a very street able 680-700hp rear wheel tire truck.
All testing was done with same room temprature, and same setup we left off at with the stock unit.
-The motor seemed like it was in good health and with intentions on tearing the motor down and upgrading the bottom end we decided to see just how much fight this motor has left in it, we had a Precision 71mm laying around so on it went. Right out of the gates it went to 800 with the same tuning as the 300sx and if you didn't know any better you would have thought it was a nitrous pass by the lack of smoke. We then had the guys at Duramaxtuner bump the tune up 200mm3 350mm3 and then 450mm3. Tune 200 took it right up to 837hp and same thing clean no smoke pass egt's up past 1800, bumped it up to the 350 and it went up to 850, again same thing seemed way to clean and way to hot. So she got the next bump in tune and did not sound good half way through run and would not really push past the 740 area. When your down power from one pass to the next by a lot is usually a good sign something is not happy! This project has been a very informative for us and I hope our findings find it helpful to you guys as well. In the end I can not praise the solid tuners out there helping us reach the power levels we are seeing on these things. If anything we should take from this is no matter built motor or stock setups Good quality tuning makes for a solid end result and engine life. I Could not be more pleased with the tuning support on this project from Bob, Mike and Nick. With these guys we where able to make 90+ passes on a 280,000 mile junk yard Duramax and keep testing consistent from one pass to the next.
Stay tuned we will be putting together a good solid street style motor and continuing product testing after the first of the year. In the meantime we have a good handful of customers we need to get tuned in with the dyno. We may be dropping back in time to time if we come across some interesting information. Thanks guys and if you have any questions feel free to ask.
Attached is some of the Dyno runs PDF. and one of the Precision 71mm so you guys get an idea of the potential in the next turbo grouping for sizing with 60 overs.
Video of dyno run with the 71mm and hurt:
https://www.instagram.com/p/-B80PMH8vv/?taken-by=empire_performance_engineering
Video of 300sx:
https://www.instagram.com/p/9xR-mfn8sZ/?taken-by=empire_performance_engineering
Video of dyno run with the 71mm and hurt:
https://www.instagram.com/p/-B80PMH8vv/?taken-by=empire_performance_engineering
Video of 300sx:
https://www.instagram.com/p/9xR-mfn8sZ/?taken-by=empire_performance_engineering
Thank you for your valuable info. Was that a box-stock S300SXE-type turbo (if so, which one?) or one that HTT had played with a little?
We did do some testing with it.
I attached an image of the exact P/N. I would have to double check with Jacob at HTT but I am almost positive this was an out of the box unit.
I think you will be very impressed with the 66-69mm series units as well. When we go back together with it and we test a few things and get a solid baseline we will be looking into single turbo configurations and twin combinations for that 900-1100 street truck setups.
We will be bumping the injectors up to 100% using Bosch Motorsport nozzles.
1st order will be starting back off with the 300sx setup just to see overlay of a built motor to upgraded street motor. (cam profile, etc.) Then we will be looking into
- Piston bowl design testing.
- Possibly head port design using stock intake manifolds
- Then moving into more turbo setups like stated above
If any of you guys are interested in the 60% over nozzles let me know
I also attached a photo of what we are starting on today with a comp motor. If anybody look hard at the picture you might be able to put an idea of what we are testing. :thumb:
Attachments
When you guys put the bigger up pipes on, was there any increase in turbo lag or did it stay consistant?
The way we look at spool up time is based off initial load when the dyno grabs the motor to boost increase rate and we did not see any difference from stock up-pipes to 2" up-pipe setup.
Only thing I would recommend when looking into up pipe setups on the market is make sure on actual size, minimal of 304 stainless, and high quality bellows preferably made from Inconel Alloy. Some will dis agree with the use of Inconel on the bellow but from our experience is the life expectancy is worth the value for less risk of failures. You will not see a 304 Stainless piping fail at welds when using that of a flex joint made from Inconel.
Some up pipes setups on the market also do not offer any sort of flex joint or coupler which is probably fine for those that intend on putting them on a 100% stock setup running mild EGT's but the use of not having some sort of flexibility for the pipes to expand and retract will cause premature failure of your up pipes.
When it comes to fabrication of any sort in the forced induction setups especially when dealing with diesel setups like we see extremely High EGT's, Boost, and Drive pressures you are going to get what you pay for. For instance a bellow in size needed for a Duramax up-pipe setup you can find 304 Stainless bellows ranging from $50-$150 per bellow, Inconel Bellows will generally start around $200 per and can go up to $400. So you can have $800 just in bellows real quick before you even lay your first weld. Which some up-pipe kits on the market don't even retail out at $800 complete. So the old Phrase "You Pay For What You Get" stands real firm in this particular situation.
And this don't even go into the debate of American Made Metals to China or other countries metal with quality where they have no ISO certifications they need to meet.
Did you guys get any info on how fuel temps affect performance? I have seen some threads pop up once in a while about this but no conclusion as to how much it really affects performance.
The dyno can be adjusted to initiate load around RPM you would like for this testing we did so at 2200 but you can simulate same load at lower RPM if you would like and would see very similar results from turbo to turbo.
Few years ago we did a little testing on it and learned that their was nothing solid from 60-90 Deg. You will see performance drop once above 90. So for those guys in competition events like scheids when its 100 Deg and 100% humidity I would suggest keeping your fuel out of the heat and sun.
Cant elaborate on that due to size configuration variances but the way these Journal bearing units have come the past couple years I would not suspect much hp difference just longevity of the units would be my personal opinion.
Good info. Thanks for the extra effort, time and money you have spent gathering this info and especially for shaing it. Much appreciated...
In my experience from past dyno sessions we have run into situations of being over fueled. I dont think you would see much difference from a 60-100 but in some of our competition setups we see it time and time again where people will over size injectors causing the tuner to have to pull duration back. I am not a believer in unloading all the fuel in a short shot. Perfect example is in the 2.6 setups. I have scene time and time again 150-200 overs make more power then 300-400 over same setup same motor. Duration is not a bad thing with proper tuning configuration.