Line Lock for staging?

05_LLY

Out-A-Time
Aug 7, 2006
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Norvelt, PA
Ok heres my thought being a 6-speed i was thinking about a line lock to help with my staging. Trying to hit 11's i feel there is some to be gained on my launches with out using the three feet method? I just want to use the line line lock to keep the truck from rolling while staging so i can keep one foot on the clutch and the other on the throttle with out worring about the break. Using a shifter mounted control switch will allow me to keep all hands where they need to be as well? Now to the question at hand, which brand,type, style of lock shoud i use i have very little experience with them and not sure what to look for to buy, also where would be the best place to mount it on a ABS 4x4, befor the abs pump i assume? what about disabling the abs for use with a line lock, should i?

Thanx for all and any help guys,
Later
Caleb
 

McRat

Diesel Hotrodder
Aug 2, 2006
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Line locks are solenoids that come with special front brake line extensions to feed them. Ours are metric.

You push down on the brake and hit the switch to the solenoid. This holds the pressure in the front brakes, so now you can release your brake. Only the rears will spin.

When you turn the switch off, it releases the pressure on the front brakes, and the car moves.

For your application you want it install it on BOTH brakes. Two solenoids with the same relay feed, but one switch. Buy two kits.
 

duratothemax

<--- slippery roads
Aug 28, 2006
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Wyoming
If you wanted to get really creative, I bet the EBCM (abs module) can be made to do this somehow...It does have pressure hold functions. hmmm....
 

Stingpuller

The Pusher Man
Jan 11, 2007
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Line lock

You can also run one in your clutch line. All you need is a orfice(jet) and you can let off a button to release the clutch. You change the jet size to control how fast or slow it releases(hits the tires). I run a setup like that on my race S-10 with a Jerico clutchless trans. I had mine tied in with the line lock so I could stage with a little brake pressure and release everything at the same time. Jeff
 

05_LLY

Out-A-Time
Aug 7, 2006
1,756
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Line locks are solenoids that come with special front brake line extensions to feed them. Ours are metric.

You push down on the brake and hit the switch to the solenoid. This holds the pressure in the front brakes, so now you can release your brake. Only the rears will spin.

When you turn the switch off, it releases the pressure on the front brakes, and the car moves.

For your application you want it install it on BOTH brakes. Two solenoids with the same relay feed, but one switch. Buy two kits.

I did actually think about putting two on at one point.

Do you mean put them front and back or both front lines?

My next question is, there are two lines leaving the Master that run to the ABS "pump" dose anyone know wether or not one line dose front and one rear, or dose the pump split it so that one line will work 1 front and one rear each?

If the master lines feed , one for the front and one for the rear, wouldnt the fact that is in 4x4 transmit the "break effect" through all wheels? Im not looking to hold a pile of load like a auto dose while staging, just enough to keep it from rolling with only enough drag on the clutch to keep the driveline tight!
 

McRat

Diesel Hotrodder
Aug 2, 2006
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If you wanted to get really creative, I bet the EBCM (abs module) can be made to do this somehow...It does have pressure hold functions. hmmm....

First guy to do this can make some $$$. All modern cars and trucks use ABS computers.

Line locks aren't big $ or volume, but a "software solution" will command a premium price.

A "bolt-on" line lock system requiring modest fabrication, is between $450 and $150.

If you wanted a line lock for your Corvette, Viper, GTO, Mustang, Duramax, etc, what would you buy:

1) Bolt-on system that you must design the wiring and route it for $200.

2) Software solution that dealer can't see, and doesn't screw up your car for $400?

I did mine as transparent as possible by using the rear defroster switch for the lock. But you could still see it when you open the hood. If I could have just swapped ABS computers, or plugged in a module, I would have paid more.
 

Bluemax

???????????
Sep 25, 2006
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Missouri
I don't know how much time you want to spend working on this, but a friend and I once made up a line lock kit for his stick shift. I took a reverse beeper switch from an old rubber tire loader and bought a TC roll control kit from Jeggs that ran around $100 or so at the time. the reverse beeper switch worked great because it could be ran under the dash to the clutch arm so that when the clutch was pushed the switch closed and turned on the line lock. All you had to do was step on the brakes and let off and they were locked,and as soon as you let the clutch up they released.:) The way the switches are made you can bend the rod that touches the clutch arm to any angle to get it to release right where you want it to. We just wired in a rocker switch to turn it off for street duty. It was a pretty nice setup even though it's kinda ghetto sounding.:D
 

05_LLY

Out-A-Time
Aug 7, 2006
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I don't know how much time you want to spend working on this, but a friend and I once made up a line lock kit for his stick shift. I took a reverse beeper switch from an old rubber tire loader and bought a TC roll control kit from Jeggs that ran around $100 or so at the time. the reverse beeper switch worked great because it could be ran under the dash to the clutch arm so that when the clutch was pushed the switch closed and turned on the line lock. All you had to do was step on the brakes and let off and they were locked,and as soon as you let the clutch up they released.:) The way the switches are made you can bend the rod that touches the clutch arm to any angle to get it to release right where you want it to. We just wired in a rocker switch to turn it off for street duty. It was a pretty nice setup even though it's kinda ghetto sounding.:D

Nah thats not ghetto, infact that sounds just like something i would do. My plans right now are to put a t handle shifter in it with the little button on the end of the handle.

Thanx for the idea!
 

05_LLY

Out-A-Time
Aug 7, 2006
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Well i got my line lock installed. So far with some minor street testing it works great. Install was kinda a pain with the factory lines being 1/4" and having 5/16 fittings on them and the line lock having 1/8 NPT holes in it??? I should get to the track on saturday if the rain hold off so we'll see if it helps with the launch or not. Even if it dosent help on the launch it makes for som killer burn outs:D!

Ill try to get some pics up ASAP!
 

malibu795

misspeelleerr
Apr 28, 2007
8,409
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My next question is, there are two lines leaving the Master that run to the ABS "pump" dose anyone know wether or not one line dose front and one rear, or dose the pump split it so that one line will work 1 front and one rear each?

the ABS pump has plungers.. if on wheel stops faster/locks up before the other ABS is activated and will pulsate all 4 tires at once.... i dotn like it

acording to NHAS(sp) all systems have to fail and still work.. ie unplug you abs, or powersteering pump.. you can still stop or turn..
 

Kat

Wicked Witch of the West
Aug 2, 2006
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Well i got my line lock installed. So far with some minor street testing it works great. Install was kinda a pain with the factory lines being 1/4" and having 5/16 fittings on them and the line lock having 1/8 NPT holes in it??? I should get to the track on saturday if the rain hold off so we'll see if it helps with the launch or not. Even if it dosent help on the launch it makes for som killer burn outs:D!

Ill try to get some pics up ASAP!

That is the only time I have ever been able to do a burn out :D When we had the line lock on the Camaro :driving:
 

Kat

Wicked Witch of the West
Aug 2, 2006
17,899
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couldnt do it in a stick shift with no line lock? Mrs hot foot :poke: :rofl:

Nope, still can't :p But, my 60ft times are the same or better then the burn out king :bootyshake: and .02 better in the 1/4 mile :fluffy: ET streets are my friend :D
 

malibu795

misspeelleerr
Apr 28, 2007
8,409
674
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in the buckeye state
no thats not how it works.

then please explain...


but i can tell you if one wheel looses traction and stops faster then the other 3 tires.. i loose brakes ALL wheels to ABS :mad: it "should" be just that wheel but it aint at least for my truck:(

and yes i have seenand torn several ABS pumps/motor apart
 

Bentley

Doesn't know $hit...
Mar 7, 2008
193
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Under a big a$$ rock...
I like line lock, gonna put a ratchet shifter in my truck and have 2 switches on it. Line lock and T/H w/ OD lock out...

Ben, I am still really curious to see what you can do with the ABS...

Also, using the DSP programmable function of EFI Live couldn't you use it for something along these lines?
 

duratothemax

<--- slippery roads
Aug 28, 2006
7,139
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Wyoming
ok this is how it works...just going off memory because I dont have SI on this computer.

its a delphi ebc-325c abs module in our trucks (over 8600gvw)

it has a charge pump motor, EBCM, EHCU, 2 front wheel speed sensors, 1 rear wheel speed sensor.

It is a 3 channel ABS system, NOT 4 like most cars. The rear wheel circuit is common and both wheels are controlled individually.

When you first start the truck and wheel speed over 15mph is detected, it goes thru a test and compares all sensors to make sure they are within range and all agreeing. Then it goes into a standby mode. When the ABS is not active, it doesnt do anything, the fluid pressure from the master cylinder bypasses right thru it. Thats why if the ABS fails you still have normal braking. There are two lines coming form the master cylinder obviously because its a dual circuit system like evry car since the 1960's. One for the rear brakes one for the front. When the EBCM senses one wheel slowing down faster in relation to the others, or a rate of decel that is over a certain threshold, it goes to work. It looks at and controls each front wheel individually and the rear wheels together.

The EHCU (electrohyhdraulic control unit) is what does the actual work, the EBCM is the brain and sensory perception. OK so the EBCM/EHCU has three modes. Pressure hold, pressure increase, and pressure decrease. There are a series of dump valves and isolation valves, and of course the pump motor. So when, say the left front wheel loses traction and starts to lock up or slow down way fatser than the others. The EBCM first activates the isolation solenoid which diverts braking pressure from the "bypass" to the actual EHCU, so now all of your brake pedal pressure has to go thru the EHCU and it can take over control if it wants to, so theoretically you have just lost control of braking and the EBCM is calling all the shots until the wheels regain traction or you let off the pedal. So once the EBCM has control of the one or more wheels that require ABS intervention, then it goes into "pressure hold" mode. The isolation solenoid holds the braking pressure constant to the wheel so even if you let up a little or press down on the pedal a bit more, its not going to make any difference. The EBCM then looks at the skidding wheel sensors speed, and if the simple pressure hold act allows the wheel to spin again then all it well. But if there is still too much pressure to allow teh wheel to regain traction, it goes into pressure decrease mode. It activates teh dump solenoid on that wheel circuit to bleed off brake pressure until the wheel starts spinning again. As soon as its bled off enough pressure to allow the wheel to start spinning again, it goes into pressure increase mode. The dump valve closes and it then uses the charge pump to build up braking pressure on that wheel until the wheel locks up again. Then the wheel starts to lock up again it goes into pressure decrease mode, and the cycle repeats until the truck stops skidding or you come to a complete stop. Thats the pulsing that you feel in the pedal. If the ABS event is long enough to completely bleed off all the availble pressure that you are putting ont eh pedal, thats why you feel the pedal go towards the floor and then push back up at you, its the pump building up pressure again.

The EBCM also controls the front/rear proportioning on our trucks; there is no standard proportioning valve. GM calls it "dynamic rear proportioning". If the front wheels lock up before the rear wheels, the EBCM cranks proportioning full rear and then does its thing with the valves and solenoids.

The ABS in our trucks works pretty well IMO on dry and wet pavement. You have to give it some credit because controlling an 8000 pound truck with a hugely different front/rear weight bias is not easy. But its not perfect. The Delphi EBCM's are much better than the old Kelsey-Hayes systems in the GMT-400 trucks (88-98), but definetly not as good or advanced as the Bosch EBCM's in the GMT-900 light duty trucks. The LMM's still have the delphi EBCM. Bosch wrote the book on ABS and stability control and if you drive a GMT-900 tahoe, suburban, 1500 silverado, you will know the difference the first time you use it.

That being said, there are some road conditions (ice, snow covered ice, etc) and offroad dirt/mud, where ABS is a huge PITA. Thats why I put mine on a swtich. For those few times when I dont want to have ABS get in the way.

You have to remember though...the point/theory of ABS is NOT (neccessarilly) to stop in a shorter distance, its to allow you to maintain control in a hard braking situation so you can swerve to avoid an accident without skidding sideways or something. Most of the time if you just do straight line braking and are a really good driver who has experience with non-ABS vehicles, you can almost always stop in less straight line distance than ABS can.


ok wow I dont ask me how I just rememebr this stupid stuff

but so onto the line lock. It would require taking the EBCM apart and wiring something in manually or using a tech 2. If someone has an extra EBCM Id like to give it a shot, but Im not about to go hack up my own. ;)

ben
 

duratothemax

<--- slippery roads
Aug 28, 2006
7,139
10
0
Wyoming
then please explain...


but i can tell you if one wheel looses traction and stops faster then the other 3 tires.. i loose brakes ALL wheels to ABS :mad: it "should" be just that wheel but it aint at least for my truck:(

and yes i have seenand torn several ABS pumps/motor apart


it does do only one wheel (or however many are skidding) at a time, everything jsut happends so fast you cant perceive it. There would be no reason for it to pulse all the wheels if only one is skidding. Both rear wheels will pulse at the same time but the front wheels are both independant.