LBZ Land Rover Discovery

Bread

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Jun 7, 2011
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By staying with the output speed sensor in the trans, the only adverse side effect will be your speedo will be off 2.72:1 in 4 low. But all of your shifts will be on, and it won't give you other issues with the van operating systems in the controllers.

Thanks. I have a feeling it's just the beginning of the list of things that I'll have to live with on a swap like this.

Thanks to the mods for changing my thread title!
 

Bread

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Glow plug extraction

So the moment I have been dreading arrived today. It was time to tackle the busted glow plugs. Actually only one was busted, and the other one was twisting the shank but not the threads so I backed away from it.

The total job took just over three hours including grinding some custom step drills, which I’ve never done before. We have an end mill grinder so I just had to figure out how to set it up to run twist drills. So here’s the arsenal I put together:




Closeup of the step drills. #7 and letter “O” drill with a #7 pilot:




I actually didn’t use the small step drill. I ground the pilot to the same size as the electrode, but once I pulled the top half of the glow plug out it revealed a much larger hollow core:




The core is about .015” under a #7 twist drill, which is the ideal size for a ¼-20 tap (yields 75% thread engagement). I tried to make a small pilot but it failed miserably, so I just plunged the #7 into the hole and it guided it just fine. I kept going until the drill stopped against the lower electrode. It’s a two piece electrode. So before tapping the hole you have to shorten the glow plug flush with the head so the tap can reach all the way in. I used the O drill to cut it down flush:




Tapping with plenty of cutting fluid, backing it out several times to clear the chips with compressed air. Breaking a tap off in the head… well you’re life will just start to suck a little bit more:




Then, drill the threaded area out to size with the O drill. Once it passed the threads it broke the bottom of the glow plug off. You can see the threads revealing themselves, so the O drill is just about the right size to use here:




Picked the threads out with a scribe, punch, and compressed air:




Then inserted a long ¼-20 cap screw to extract the remaining end of the glow plug:




Then I used the home made tap to clean the threads before inserting the new plug as I did in the other holes:




As for the last plug, I realized that I had tried all kinds of heat, careful torqing, and hammering but I hadn’t tried an impact wrench. Shocking the threads usually works really well, but I didn’t have any confidence in this case because the glow plug shanks were so rusted and weak. But I figured what the hell, if it busted off I had the procedure to drill it out. So I hit it with my ½” gun (overkill) and bam! It came right out! Happy happy day.
 

LtEng5

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Mar 24, 2013
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Nice build. So much easier when you have access to machining tools!!! Keep the pic flood coming!!!!!!!
 

gassux

Member
Mar 14, 2010
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i was removing a glow plug and naturally it broke off as well. I think you could hear my asshole slam shut across the country. Luckily it wasnt as serious as yours. Nice build keep it coming.
 

Bread

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Jun 7, 2011
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Thanks for the words of encouragement. I’ve been collecting parts since 2009, so I’m really pleased to finally start making some progress.

Nice build. So much easier when you have access to machining tools!!! Keep the pic flood coming!!!!!!!

I’ve been a machinist and millwright for a long time, so I’ve invested my future in tools and machinery. I do have access to heavy machine tools at work, but the small lathes and mills are often times booked with paying jobs. So the lathe and mill shown in earlier posts are in my home garage. It’s only a single car workshop, so things are really cramped. But it’s not too bad as long as I keep things organized.




So I did drag the Dura Rover project down to the shop last weekend, but I didn’t make as much progress as I’d like to. There were some decisions to be made which slowed things down. But the LR did come home on Sunday night with the Duramax mounted between the frame rails for the first time, so that was exciting. Yes, I drive a Ford!




I got a chance to use this 50’s Delta drill press for the first time since I rebuilt it making these temporary body shims out of 5/8” plywood. I won’t know exactly how much body lift will be required until the new wheels and axles go in, so I figured these would be handy to make adjustments. The final lift will either be aluminum spacers, or I’ll weld steel tubes in place if I feel like going through all the effort. The LR has 14 body mounts, and I don’t intend to participate in any kind of off-road activities that require wearing a helmet. Aluminum spacers will be more than adequate for my purposes. I only make this comment because there are some body lift trolls on many off-road forums. But their complaints are more of an issue in theory than practice. Anyways, here’s the drill press:




I decided on 1-5/8” DS offset for the power train. The entire setup is now parallel to the frame rails from the balancer back to the TC output shaft. The oil cooler delete plates I made clear with plenty of room to run lines.




I measured the angles to determine the correct elevation to work with the rear diff, but again until I get the new axles in things may change. I made this rear trans mount out of 2x2x¼” square tube. It’s too heavy, but that’s all I had on hand. It utilizes the factory rubber mount under the TC adapter. I have plenty of threads to insert spacers as needed later. The tubes are drilled/tapped for metric bolts. The entire build so far has used metric hardware because it annoys the hell out of me when automakers mix/match. I will fabricate clearance for the front shaft later. For the moment I just needed to get things mounted. It actually looked really nice before I subjected the steel to my welding skills:





Next time I’ll try and bring my wire feed from home. The ancient ARC welder we have at work is difficult to use on lower amperage settings required for ‘thin’ materials. At least for me it is. And I couldn’t find any anti-spatter so I had a bunch of cleaning up to do with the grinder when I was finished. So back to the mount. The holes are slotted, and centered currently in case I need to juggle things around again:




So then I made motor mounts of 3/16” plate and square tube. Drilling the holes in what we call the “small drill press” at work:




My band saw sucks ass on short pieces of tube, so I decided to clamp the miter joints in the mill to square them up because I got tired over at the belt sander. We hope to be getting a new band saw for the shop this summer:




This is just a proof of concept, so the mount is solid welded to the tube for now. I ordered the appropriate sized poly motor mounts yesterday to replace the tubes. The poly mount is the pivot point and I didn’t want them hanging out in space. I placed them directly over the factory motor mounts so the entire load on the mount is downwards. Any kind of mount that is spaced from the frame will torque the frame. It concerns me because the Duramax power train is around 600 lbs heavier than what the LR came with. The frame is actually quite thin I discovered. I can easily bend it with a C-clamp. Oh, and I made sure there was room to remove the starter!




I am only using three points of contact for the drive train. A motor mount on either side, and the trans mount. This way when the frame flexes off-road it will not stress the trans or transfer case. And I am certain this LR frame will flex.

Lastly, here’s a shot of the front differential to oil pan clearance with the suspension compressed. Well, the weight of the Duramax compressed it almost down to the bump stops but I’ll take care of that with new lift springs. The differential on the GM Dana 60 front I’ll be using is offset several inches further away than the LR diff, so I should be good to go without cutting the aluminum shelf off below the starter. As you can see, the transmission housing would need to be cut anyways to make use of that space. But of course I will butcher what I have to when the time comes. But for now, I’m thinking I’m ok.

 

Bread

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Jun 7, 2011
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Went scrounging around at the junkyard again after work today in search of a solution to my steering problem. I did some reading, and the Toyota 4 runner steering gear from the IFS rigs holds up to a lot of abuse. Found this 1990 4 Runner with the engine already pulled. Took the steering shaft off and moved it around to check for play. Felt tight and looks like the arrangement will work so I yanked it out. Oh, and I don’t feel so bad about the LR’s thin frame anymore. The 4 Runner frame is tiny!




So $75 and I’m out the door with it. Here it is on the right next to the LR gear:




Pulled the wheel off the LR to have a better look. Here’s a shot of one of my new all-in-one jack stands, which I highly recommend. Such a brilliant idea, and they work great on trucks. After using them I ordered two more so I’ll have a set of 4. Tractor supply had the best price if you’re local. I don’t have one near me, so I ordered from build.com for $81.96 a pair, free shipping. I don’t know why I’m endorsing a jack stand, but I’m just really happy to have a tool that makes working on cars more enjoyable.




So anyways, the sway bar has to go. Maybe I can shift it enough to work later, or I’ll just put a Currie on there wide enough to clear it.




There are some clearance issues with the AC condenser, and the front body mount but it actually fits pretty well otherwise. The pitman arm that came with it is actually damn near perfect. The LR drag link is zip tied to the track bar just to the right, but in the correct spot still for the high steer arms I purchased for the Dana 60:




I didn’t get a shot of it because it was getting dark, but the steering shaft looks like it should clear the exhaust and the shock tower as well. If not, I’ll install an intermediate bearing of some sort.
 

LtEng5

Member
Mar 24, 2013
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If the milling machines work well and fit into the garage; all the better. Top of the line machines are stupid expensive, even when bought used and many times you cant fit 'em into a small garage. So. nice set up and the mobile cart is a cool idea for the bridgeport. :thumb:

The passenger side engine mount..... that is a temp mock up piece; yes..???:eek: you do plan on making it a more sturdy unit....??

That jack stand is pretty neat... nice that it has a full base plate, instead of just the typical corner posts that get stuck in to the pavement.

For the sway bar...once you get the steering linkage figured out, you may be able to still use the stock bar with a shorter link and maybe a hymn joint......

That'll be a fun drive once its up and running!!!!
 

Bread

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Jun 7, 2011
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If the milling machines work well and fit into the garage; all the better. Top of the line machines are stupid expensive, even when bought used and many times you cant fit 'em into a small garage. So. nice set up and the mobile cart is a cool idea for the bridgeport.

Like many guys I've always wanted my own machinery, so when 'deal' popped up I blew my entire savings to get them. It hurt at the time, but they've provided me a lot of enjoyment. I built carts for both machines for a couple reasons. First, my driveway is 10' long, and right on a major arterial road. I couldn’t back a truck up to the door so I had to roll them down the sidewalk to get them home. And the other reason they're blocked up is that I'm 6'3" and it hurts my back to hunch over a lathe for hours at a time. Then getting them powered up was a whole other ordeal. My garage is detached, so I had to dig a 3’ deep trench from the main house to bury conduit for a 100amp sub panel in the garage. The back steps to the house were a casualty as I didn't feel like getting off the excavator to disassemble them properly:



Then I had to find a rotary phase converter (the white motor under the lathe). I was able to re-wire the Bridgeport from 440 to 220, but the Nardi came with a 440 only motor which had to be replaced. I sourced and retrofitted a 220v motor. So it cost a small fortune to get those machines in the garage, and now I can never move J

The passenger side engine mount..... that is a temp mock up piece; yes..??? you do plan on making it a more sturdy unit....??
Most certainly just temporary! I had to work quick last weekend to meet my goal of bringing the LR home with an engine under the hood. Once my new bushings come in I’ll re-work the mount properly. Although it’s more difficult to work on at home with the body in the way, at least I can take my time.

That jack stand is pretty neat... nice that it has a full base plate, instead of just the typical corner posts that get stuck in to the pavement.
Since my driveway is too small to be useful, I do most of my wrenching on dirt in the backyard. Those flat base plate jack stands have been awesome.

That'll be a fun drive once its up and running!!!!

I can't wait. I didn't typically associate myself as the type of guy who drives a British vehicle, but I got over it. There's something I like about taking something 'proper' and pissing it off.
 

gmc502

Member
Jan 16, 2011
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as other have said,,awesome build and love the back stories.I have the same drill press,same era.
 

Bread

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Jun 7, 2011
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Awesome build man. Should be a very sweet ride when done!

Where in WA? Might have to come take a peak sometime :thumb:

Seattle area (Ballard).

as other have said,,awesome build and love the back stories.I have the same drill press,same era.

It wasn't worth fixing for my customer since you can purchase a new 17" woodworking drill press for $700, but it was worth the labor of love for me to restore it rather than send it to the scrap yard. Things were made so much better back then. The weight alone of older machinery tells you how well it's made.

As for the back stories, that's because I have always had a problem getting to the point! But I know from a readers perspective the threads with pictures are much more interesting. Hoping it greases the wheels when I have Duramax questions :hug:

Great build! :thumb: Please keep the pictures and story flowing. I just subscribed to this thread and plan on living vicariously through you.

Crap, so now I actually have to finish a project!
 

Bread

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Ok, I actually have been working on this despite losing some momentum waiting for my motor mount bushings to arrive. It’s more productive to commit to a weekend at the shop and just bust things out than the way I’m doing in now in the backyard. Plus the body is totally in the way of the areas I'm trying to work on!:




But enough excuses. So I pulled out my mockup PS mount and milled some clearance for the bottom bolt:




And I don’t know why people do this or why I’m doing it now, but here’s a shot of my mig welding (right) vs my arc welding (square tube to plate on the left). I made a couple passes over those welds after this pic was taken:




PS mount complete:




PS mount installed:




DS mount complete:




DS mount installed:




The mounting plates and the flat bar pieces are ¼”. The square tube is 3/16”, and the mounting pads are 3/8”. I’m kinda kicking myself now for finish welding and painting these mounts before the entire build has been mocked up. That’s not the right way to do it in case I need to shift things around later, but I couldn’t help it. I just wanted something to be 'done'.
 

Bread

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Jun 7, 2011
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I’ve had the Land Rover’s AC compressor laying in the air box while I decided what to do. I rarely use AC here in Seattle other than to defog my windows, but I want to keep it. The system is charged and according to the previous owner, working good. The lines on the Duramax compressor stick up way into the hood, preventing it from closing. Both compressors are made by Denso and run the same line pressures. Other than the hose connections, the only difference is the Rovers 10PA model has a larger diameter pulley with one more rib on the belt. So rather than making custom lines, I decided to mount the Rover 10PA compressor to the engine and ditch the Duramax 10S compressor.

My first two mounts failed. It was difficult to take proper measurements while fighting with the AC lines, which want to position the compressor like it was on the old motor. So that’s my excuse. Here’s the start of the successful PS bracket. Facing off some bar stock to bring it down to ½” thick and get the height I need:




Holes drilled/tapped:




The DS bracket was going to be more complicated. I started with this chunk of steel I found in the scrap bin at work:







I left some extra meat on the right side in case I need a place to attach some support brackets for the second AC compressor for OBA. That one will be a Sanden driven off a separate v-belt. All bolted up here:






I marked the position of the tensioner before I swapped compressors. You can see by the timing marks that it’s pretty close to where it was before:

 

Bread

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Jun 7, 2011
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So this was a bummer. Another weird van LBZ/LLY thing. The mouthpiece points up towards the hood:




So I tried out this S&B mouthpiece. Insane how small the LBZ van mouthpiece is. I suppose they could get away with it seeing as how it’s so heavily detuned:




Although the S&B makes a sharper turn which I need:




It doesn’t clear the big van intake bridge unless I point it straight up:




I don’t really want to mount an air filter on my hood so; I’ll have to figure something else out. The PPE high flow intake bridge looks like a modified van bridge, so if I can figure out what mouthpiece works with that intake I might have something. Or I guess just machine my own v-band flange and start piecing together my own plumbing.
 

dslhtrdr

Always learning
Nov 22, 2012
262
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Sebastopol, Ca
It looks like you have access to all the machining and welding equipment, so if I were you, I would try to relocate the inlet of the factory van y-bridge to keep it inexpensive. As long as you or someone you know can weld aluminum I don't think it would be much of an issue and would save you some money.

I bought a 3" shorty y-bridge from Pro Fab for mine. It's a nice piece, but if I had the capability to make my own for much cheaper, I would have just for the sake of saving money.

Looking good so far. Keep at it!

On edit: I also bought the v band flange for the turbo inlet from Empire Diesel to fab my intake plumbing. They are the only ones who make it, but again, if you have the time and capability to make it yourself, go for it.
 

Bread

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Jun 7, 2011
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It looks like you have access to all the machining and welding equipment, so if I were you, I would try to relocate the inlet of the factory van y-bridge to keep it inexpensive. As long as you or someone you know can weld aluminum I don't think it would be much of an issue and would save you some money.

I bought a 3" shorty y-bridge from Pro Fab for mine. It's a nice piece, but if I had the capability to make my own for much cheaper, I would have just for the sake of saving money.

Looking good so far. Keep at it!

On edit: I also bought the v band flange for the turbo inlet from Empire Diesel to fab my intake plumbing. They are the only ones who make it, but again, if you have the time and capability to make it yourself, go for it.

Although I hate to chop up that bridge since it's brand new, I do have an excellent welder at my shop who can tig weld aluminum. DHD has a nice cast 3" bridge for $300, which would probably be worth it to save the effort. Although it too seems to point up at the hood.

I'm going to re-direct my efforts to the cooling and braking systems for now and fill in the gaps with the air plumbing later after I've had time to ponder my options. The layout of those systems are more important and less flexible anyways.

Also my truck was rear ended a couple hours ago parked in front of my house. It appears to be totaled, so I now have a new expense and headache to deal with for the next couple weeks :(
 

plazmamunky

Just A Few Months AWAY
Mar 31, 2013
130
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Wichita, KS McConnell AFB
OUCH Sorry to hear that. I take it it was a hit and run?

Had something similar happen to my buddy a year ago lady fell asleep at the year in a residential area hit the truck just right clibmed the rear tire and flipped her car.. Sad thing was he had just finished the four link on it and.. good news welds sdidnt break ...but the axel was bent .
 

Bread

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Jun 7, 2011
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OUCH Sorry to hear that. I take it it was a hit and run?

No hit and run. Her front wheel was ripped completely off so she wasn’t going anywhere!

This exact same thing happened a few months ago actually. Older lady wandered too far to the right while driving at night. She was actually funny. She said her son was going to be mad since he just asked her if she was ok to drive home in the dark, lol. Her Buick clipped the rear bumper twisting it up into the bed and denting the side a bit. Pushed my truck up against the curb and ripped her front wheel nearly off when it contacted the rear tire of my truck (newer Buick). New buick against one ton Ford, Buick lost. I still drove my truck after pulling the bumper out with the forklift at work so I could use the tailgate J Sucks because I JUST finished restoring the truck last summer. Rebuilt the engine myself, Hypermax turbo, new trans ($4k), put the front clip from the newer 96 trucks on it (mine is a 90), new paint, window glass seals and tint, new wheels/tires, etc. I have thousands into it.

I hadn’t had time to fix it yet since I use it for work and they don’t have a one ton rental truck to loan me. And then now it gets hit again. This time a 87 year old lady hit it with her little Pontiac sunfire, but more directly. Both her airbags blew, front wheel ripped off and spun her around into the middle of the street. My truck is up ON the curb this time; the rear axle mainspring is bent cocking the axle forward, the driveline is bottomed out in the transfer case (who knows what could be wrong here) and the entire bed is twisted. So I think the frame is bent, in which case it’s certainly totaled and beyond any repair I would want to do.

Just like last time I was sitting on my couch and heard a crash. Dammit! again? Ran outside (pouring rain and dark) and found the wrecks. Ran straight up to her car and yanked her door open. Shut off the ignition. Cabin was full of airbag smoke, and older lady on an oxygen tank was in the drivers seat… oh shit. The airbag hit her in the face but the hoses were still hanging around her nose. I went around and pried/forced the passenger door open to clear the smoke and try to find her tank to make sure it was working. She didn’t know what happened or have anybody to call so I was worried. It’s a lot of stress for an older person to be subjected to, and anything could happen in the minutes after an accident. All I could do was talk to her to keep her calm, and try to asses her condition. Fortunately an off duty fireman pulled up and knew exactly what to do. Another lady approached shortly after and said she was following the older lady and she had been swerving, so I think her driving days might be over. There was some take out food wrapped up on the seat behind her. She said she wanted to get something to eat. I’m just glad she’s ok. It's a major inconvenience but I can get a new truck.

Didn’t take any pics last night, but here are some from this morning. This is how far it moved up onto the curb:




This is a 15k lb. rated tow bumper twisted up into the bed. Her hood went under and my rear wheel took most of the hit. You can see part of the bed misalignment here as well.




You can see the whole axle is forward in the wheel well:




Bent main spring. The axle is shifted under the U-bolts as well:




You can see the bed misalignment here. It’s pushed up closer to the cab and inwards. The bed is still mounted to the frame on all points. I don’t see where it has shifted at all, so it really looks like the frame is twisted: