Kryptonite tie rods, or stockers with sleeves?

[dman777]

Look at it from the point of leverage. The stock center link has these -S- bends at each end, GM engineers did this as a cost effective way to correct some steering geometry problems challenged by other parts of the truck being in the way. In comes the aftermarket witch has identified the weak points but is still faced with the same challenges as GM. NOTE: the most common change the aftermarket has made is eliminating the bends in the link. A straight link drastically reduces both the flex and the roll but at the cost of turning radius. The problem is just plane not having the real estate to swing a system with good geometry.
Still others like DHD with their brace and Cognito with the PISK, have made attempts to work with the bends that the GM Engineers put in the stock link. These have run into the the same trouble with binding and limiting free movement somewhere in the systems travel.
Then one must also consider the limitations that each of us throw into the mix when we lift it or lower it, how we use it and still what sacrifices are we willing to make. The bottom line is no one option fits all.

Where does the DHD have binding issues or limit free movement? You talking about the lower control arm bolts? I just sanding those down to where it doesn't hit anymore. Steers great now! Again I am talking about stock height trucks like mine.

 

[56taskforce]

If you are lifted depending on lift the DHD brace doesn't work at all

 

[dman777]

If you are lifted depending on lift the DHD brace doesn't work at all

Correct which is why I made it clear I was talking about stock height trucks and it looks like the OP is at stock height.

 

[Chevy1925]

Excuse my ignorance. Rotation not flexing or bending. What I meant was the DHD brace keeps the centerlink from doing whatever it's not suppose to do (rotate). I guess I'm just confused. What is the point of having the DHD brace if it doesn't solve breaking or bending tie rods? Also, how did I spend all day Saturday at the track doing 4wd launches running mid 7's in the 1/8 with no toe in or any damage to my tie rods? I even had some friends watch very carefully when I launched the first couple times to make sure my truck wasn't doing the stanky leg. They said the tires looked straight when I launched. I only have the brace and sleeves all other components are oem. Granted, my truck is stock suspension. I know it's different when it comes to lifted or dropped trucks. I want to make sure we are comparing apples to apples. I'm not trying to sound like a douche bag. I'm just asking to make sure I understand what's going on to prevent damage to my truck in the future. I'm thinking about putting my GoPro underneath my truck and doing a couple 4wd launches to see what's really happening.

the DHD brace job is the same exact thing cognito braces job or a straight centerlink. to stop the centerlink from rotating. that has nothing to do with the tie rods. when the centerlink rolls, tires toe in. this causes the awesome torque hop you can get. Now if you launch your truck on a sticky track and one front tire decides to not grab, then instantly grab again, it can cause a nice torque hop in the steering wheel and kill a tie rod. its not a matter of IF, its a matter of WHEN. you will go through one. Im not saying that to be an ass, ive been around the block too many damn times on front end steering parts. not just on my truck either.

Now i didnt say you would get nasty toe in when you launch hard, there are ways to combat it. i would bet you dont have your front end aligned at the front end height you launch at the track at. I would be very inclined to say you drop the front end when you get there, no? when you drop that front end, your tires toe out due to our awesome bumpsteer issue. so when your launching, what ever little front end rise you get and flex there is in suspension, steering, ect can be absorbed by this toe out as it is trying to toe in. thus making your launch nice and your friends from seeing the "dmax shuffle". but like a say, a tire spins and catches from a hard launch or your launch too hard a couple times or something becomes a little loose in that front end and your tie rods will be the ones taking the beating and wearing out. they are your weakest point if the centerlink doesnt bend first.

Look at it from the point of leverage. The stock center link has these -S- bends at each end, GM engineers did this as a cost effective way to correct some steering geometry problems challenged by other parts of the truck being in the way. In comes the aftermarket witch has identified the weak points but is still faced with the same challenges as GM. NOTE: the most common change the aftermarket has made is eliminating the bends in the link. A straight link drastically reduces both the flex and the roll but at the cost of turning radius. The problem is just plane not having the real estate to swing a system with good geometry.
Still others like DHD with their brace and Cognito with the PISK, have made attempts to work with the bends that the GM Engineers put in the stock link. These have run into the the same trouble with binding and limiting free movement somewhere in the systems travel.
Then one must also consider the limitations that each of us throw into the mix when we lift it or lower it, how we use it and still what sacrifices are we willing to make. The bottom line is no one option fits all.

not all straight centerlinks do this. only ones that use a factory style inner tie rod

 

[OregonDMAX]

If you are lifted depending on lift the DHD brace doesn't work at all

Only if the diff is relocated. But who would be dumb enough to launch a cranked front end either.

 

[WolfLMM]

Only if the diff is relocated. But who would be dumb enough to launch a cranked front end either.

 

[dman777]

the DHD brace job is the same exact thing cognito braces job or a straight centerlink. to stop the centerlink from rotating. that has nothing to do with the tie rods. when the centerlink rolls, tires toe in. this causes the awesome torque hop you can get. Now if you launch your truck on a sticky track and one front tire decides to not grab, then instantly grab again, it can cause a nice torque hop in the steering wheel and kill a tie rod. its not a matter of IF, its a matter of WHEN. you will go through one. Im not saying that to be an ass, ive been around the block too many damn times on front end steering parts. not just on my truck either.

Now i didnt say you would get nasty toe in when you launch hard, there are ways to combat it. i would bet you dont have your front end aligned at the front end height you launch at the track at. I would be very inclined to say you drop the front end when you get there, no? when you drop that front end, your tires toe out due to our awesome bumpsteer issue. so when your launching, what ever little front end rise you get and flex there is in suspension, steering, ect can be absorbed by this toe out as it is trying to toe in. thus making your launch nice and your friends from seeing the "dmax shuffle". but like a say, a tire spins and catches from a hard launch or your launch too hard a couple times or something becomes a little loose in that front end and your tie rods will be the ones taking the beating and wearing out. they are your weakest point if the centerlink doesnt bend first.



not all straight centerlinks do this. only ones that use a factory style inner tie rod

Thanks for the explanation. So you have seen broken or bent tie rods with the DHD brace installed and tie rod sleeves?
Back to the OP's original post, my question is would it be better for him to install just HD tie rods vs DHD brace and cheap tie rods and sleeves? Or DHD and HD tie rods? Reason I'm suggesting DHD is because he is at stock height.

 

[Chevy1925]

Thanks for the explanation. So you have seen broken or bent tie rods with the DHD brace installed and tie rod sleeves?
Back to the OP's original post, my question is would it be better for him to install just HD tie rods vs DHD brace and cheap tie rods and sleeves? Or DHD and HD tie rods? Reason I'm suggesting DHD is because he is at stock height.

No i have not but the two do not coincide. you keep making this relation between the two as if they do. its like telling me your built trans blew your turbo up. if you had a PPE centerlink, i would not change what im saying as far as tie rod issues. if you had cognito braces and brand new idler/pitman arm, same deal.

the DHD brace is a whole different discussion. we may as well talk about cognito braces, straight centerlinks with stock style inner tie rod mount, and straight centerlinks with outer tie rod style joints used as the inners. comparing HD tie rods to DHD brace and stock tie rods is apple to orange+apple.

 

[dman777]

No i have not but the two do not coincide. you keep making this relation between the two as if they do. its like telling me your built trans blew your turbo up. if you had a PPE centerlink, i would not change what im saying as far as tie rod issues. if you had cognito braces and brand new idler/pitman arm, same deal.

the DHD brace is a whole different discussion. we may as well talk about cognito braces, straight centerlinks with stock style inner tie rod mount, and straight centerlinks with outer tie rod style joints used as the inners. comparing HD tie rods to DHD brace and stock tie rods is apple to orange+apple.

See if I have this right.....
-DHD brace, cognito, and straight centerlinks help prevent the centerlink from rotating
-We don't want it rotating because it causes toe in
-Toe in causes torque hop
-Torque hop causes tie rod failure
But this still does not address the weak tie rod issue because torque hop can be caused by other things like traction issues. So you have to address the centerlink and tie rods seperatly.

 

[Harbin_22]

Sleeves and Cognito braces here. Took the "cheap" way out and have hundreds of 4wd launches with no problems yet. Cut many low 1.5x at the track on radials and 30x14 cheaters.

 

[Chevy1925]

See if I have this right.....
-DHD brace, cognito, and straight centerlinks help prevent the centerlink from rotating
-We don't want it rotating because it causes toe in
-Toe in causes torque hop
-Torque hop causes tie rod failure
But this still does not address the weak tie rod issue because torque hop can be caused by other things like traction issues. So you have to address the centerlink and tie rods seperatly.

There ya go, very close. fixing the centerlink rotation is not the end all to tie rod failure. there are also other factors as i posted that cause toe in so stopping the centerlink rotation will not stop all toe in

 

[Robby Avery]

Subd

 

[Jakemax04]

So basically Derek was right

 

[Chevy1925]

So basically Derek was right

in certain aspects he was but not the points i was arguing against.

a DHD brace does not stop tie rod failure. plain and simple.

 

[dman777]

in certain aspects he was but not the points i was arguing against.

a DHD brace does not stop tie rod failure. plain and simple.

But it definitely helps. Plain and simple.
After all of this discussion it's still hard for me to see how the centerlink and tie rods do not coincide. Fixing the rotating centerlink may not address all of the factors for broken tie rods but it does address a major reason why they break or bend. You could also argue running into a tree is a factor. Lol
I still say for what the OP mentioned he was going to use his truck for the DHD brace and sleeves is what I would do. I don't think it will help him by just addressing the tie rod. I would address both the centerlink and tie rod. If he wants to buy upgraded tie rod ends for piece of mind that's up to him. But I don't think it's necessary for his application. Too many high hp trucks with just DHD brace and sleeves with good results for me to spend the extra money. By calling people cheap is sometimes a way a person tries to justify spending too much money on something.

 

[WolfLMM]

Yes I agree, the cheap line gets thrown around a lot on some of these boards. I Call it being smart with my money, but to each his on. I ended up buying the rare parts tierods. In the end it wasn't much different price wise.

Thank you for all the input guys!

Wolf

 

[Chevy1925]

But it definitely helps. Plain and simple.
After all of this discussion it's still hard for me to see how the centerlink and tie rods do not coincide. Fixing the rotating centerlink may not address all of the factors for broken tie rods but it does address a major reason why they break or bend. You could also argue running into a tree is a factor. Lol
I still say for what the OP mentioned he was going to use his truck for the DHD brace and sleeves is what I would do. I don't think it will help him by just addressing the tie rod. I would address both the centerlink and tie rod. If he wants to buy upgraded tie rod ends for piece of mind that's up to him. But I don't think it's necessary for his application. Too many high hp trucks with just DHD brace and sleeves with good results for me to spend the extra money. By calling people cheap is sometimes a way a person tries to justify spending too much money on something.

yes, just as the other parts i have mentioned before do as well. it is not the end all to end all for hurt tie rods which is the way you make it come off to be. its only a piece of the puzzle. not having all your ducks in a row can kill a tie rod in heart beat even with all the best parts on a truck, i know, ive tried it (diesel place has a ton of my testing and feed back on what ive done). As for the cheap comment, i certainly could have worded it better. that said, i never did say no one should run this either. i simply stated my concern for the outer tie rod and my personal findings. all of which show it is a weak link and no amount of bracing on the centerlink will strength that part nor will it stop it all together. ive explained it the best i can. all thats left is for you to find out first hand and keep an eye on them.

 

[meeksn01]

I installed sleeves 6 years ago and have had no problems. Knock on wood lol

 

[meeksn01]

I also have a ppe solid center link which helped a ton on boosted launches

 

[Burn Down]

Wow... Good one Wolf:rofl: