Knock LLY replaced injectors

[Moose0011]

I had earlier posted I had a Smokey LLY. I took the truck to the Stealership and they told me I need to replace my right bank injectors. so I did. I don't have any smoke. but I have a Knock at about 1/4 throttle that is loud and it sputters when the truck warms up some. All sputtering and knocking go away at full throttle and truck goes quite. The Sputtering isn't bad you can feel just a little bit of hesitation kind of like light bumps.

I don't have full faith in the mechanic that worked on it and I wonder if he Mucked something up. I don't know if this sounds familiar to anyone. The truck doesn't always knock. at no throttle nothing and at half to full all I really hear is turbo, but somewhere around 1/4 throttle just normal driving loud knock. I am about to throw the towel in on the truck. I have no codes other than P0741 and P0700. The transmission is shifting great though so I am scratching my head on that.. any help with that would be great too. I left the truck with the mechanic and he replaced the passenger side with the good ones. I showed up to pick up my truck and it knocked really bad still and I noticed he hadn't touched the side that was bad. Plus there was a snap sound. I was told that was because of an O-ring that was wrong? No idea that was the mechanic. so he took my old good ones out and put them in the drivers side. I picked the truck up and left and I had no power. a big wiring harness was not plugged so I zip tied that back on because the clips were broke. I took off and I blew the bottom hose out of my intercooler for the turbo. stuck it back on and tightened it. then took off and the top end of that hose popped off right before the intake.. so I put that on and tightened it. I noticed my truck said low coolant after beating my head against the wall and bleeding my system I noticed the sensor was unplugged. I thought I was leaking the fluid. I wasn't... so now... this is where I am..

I also have a second problem. I didn't have heat which I figured out. I thought I had a plugged heater core but I could blow water through it no problem. figured out the heater for winter that heated the radiator fluid when plugged out and a ball valve in it that was stuck.. Now I have great heat in the truck. but if I turn it over to defrost it will switch to floor defrost not full defrost and I can't change it to anything else. If I turn the nob back to vent then nothing.. If turn the truck off and right back on. It will blow out the vents.. Any ideas?

Thanks a head of time for your help. I hope it makes sense.. I am at lunch and typing as fast as I can..

 

[redrob]

For your second problem , you may have to your hvac actuators recalibrated with a scan tool. I am assuming you have auto hvac . They seem to lose their counts with the batteries disconnected .

 

[Burn Down]

Why didn't you let the dealer make the repair if you can't do it yourself? I would take it to the dealer and pay to have it fixed properly if I were you. Where did you get the 4 injectors from?

 

[Moose0011]

The dealer wanted more money than I had at the time or have now. The injectors are AC delco that I bought from the dealer. The dealer ship wanted 3200 to do the 4 and 6900 to do all 8.. how ever the math on that worked out.

I don't think the guy is a bad mechanic just not a great diesel mech. I think he Rushed it. He owns one just like mine. He had my truck for 1 month 3 weeks and 4 days over 4 bad injectors. I really don't want to go by there for him to figure out this problem. That is why I am asking for help.

I can wrench myself. I couldn't at the time. We just had a newborn literally at the same time I dropped the truck off so I had no time. my main problem is I can't diagnose it. That is why I am asking for help. I have heard O ring problem on the injectors



Redrob I thought the HVAC on these recalibrated themselves when you plug them back in and started the truck? What scan tool do you speak of? Like a code reader? If so fathers didn't give me an option for that. I just ordered a Bluetooth OBDII reader and bought Torque Pro. will that do it?

 

[Burn Down]

Well lets start with some easy stuff.
1. Check the 3 ground wires at the right front of the engine just above the oil pan. Mine had come loose and made a intermittent fuel knock.
2. Being it's a LLY have you ice picked #2 an #7? I went ahead a did all mine. Has it had the update harness installed on 2 and 7? Make sure all the injector harness are plugged in and the locks are set.
3. What are the balance rates, in gear at idle with the engine at operating temp?
4. Ck the harness for rub marks at the ficm.

 

[Moose0011]

Thank you burn down!!! I didn't even know there was an update harness nor did I know there were 3 ground wires at the right side of the engine above the oil pan. If you don't mind me asking thought when you say right hand side are you saying drivers side or are you saying passenger side. I know the the injectors are even on drivers side and odd's on passenger.

I will also say the knock isn't like really loud it just isn't there at all until the engine warms up. It seems when my engine temp gets to where the thermostat will open it starts. Like somewhere around 175 180 degrees it will start. I haven't noticed the sputter except for 2 different times. its weird. but the knock always comes when the truck warms ups. Also there is no smoke...

any idea on the codes I posted either? Have you ever saw them?

 

[Burn Down]

With Cat machines it's always from sitting in the operator seat or from the flywheel, so right side of the engine from the seat if the engine is in front. I forget sometimes that not everyone has a technician background.

The ground wires being loose made a loud audible knock on my truck, may not be your issue but it's easy to ck.

The code is for lockup on the converter, from what I gathered by reading a couple of Mike L's posts it is caused from a massive converter slip or no signal the ecm will read that as a large slip as well.

But let's finish the engine trouble shooting first. Have you done the other tests?

 

[Moose0011]

well I checked my balance rates today. with Torque Pro. The truck was in Drive with my foot on the brake. Keep in mind that 1,3,5,and 7 are brand new.. this blows my mind..

cyl1 = 6.1
cyl2 = -0.1
cyl3 = 3.9
cyl4 = 0.8
cyl 5 = -3.4
cyl 6 = -1.2
cyl 7 = -1.5
cyl 8 = -4.2

That don't seem right. I thought when in drive from what I have read they all need to be between 6 and -6. and if in park they need to be between 2 and -2.


about the converter slip code. I didn't feel the slip. I will just look down and it will be on. then 3 or 4 days later it may shut off it may not. I have had it shut off before for like 3 days then it is back.. this last time it didn't shut off by itself I had to clear it. and I am trying to see if I can feel it when the light comes on. I have never felt a thing.

I will check the ground wires tomorrow. I didn't drive the truck today except to start it to get the injector readings. which I didn't drive it I just went out and started it and kept checking it as it warmed up and in park and in drive.

When your ground wires were lose did your truck smoke?

 

[Burn Down]

My truck would let out a puff of smoke when it would knock.

How many miles are on the truck as of now?

I would re- check the injector plugs on 1 and 3 for sure, maybe your mechanic didn't get them fully seated.

Do you have a way to do a compression test?

 

[Moose0011]

excuse my ignorance but when you say injector plugs are you talking about the wire fitting?

the truck has 211,751 miles.

I know my dad has a way to check compression on gas mothers through the spark plug hole. but diesel I don't think so.

 

[Burn Down]

Yes the wire plugin on top of the injector may not be fully seated.

A compression test would tell us the health of each cylinder and the valves. Weak compression on individual cylinders will cause balance rates to be out of whack.

 

[NC-smokinlmm]

excuse my ignorance but when you say injector plugs are you talking about the wire fitting?

the truck has 211,751 miles.

I know my dad has a way to check compression on gas mothers through the spark plug hole. but diesel I don't think so.

You compression test diesels thru the glow plug hole.

 

[clrussell]

I wonder if the machanic put the injectors in the wrong spot..

1,3,5,7 are passenger side injectors..


You'd be surprised how much I see people put them in backwards according to firing order...

 

[Moose0011]

Sorry it has been so long since I have been on to respond. My wife went back to work this week and we car pool and she works a longer shift so I leave and it is dark and I get home take care of the baby and what not and go to bed. I haven't been able to get to in depth they in the truck. I remember the mechanic said the cylinders all looked brand new and he didn't see any scratching or anything and all the tests he ran were good. Now I am assuming he didn't do a compression check but he may have. My next dilemma is I have actually never saw how an injector comes out. do they just un screw like a spark plug or what. Does anyone know of a video where they pull an injector out of an LLY? If they would post the link that would be great.

The test the Stealership an was the flow rate test. it stated that the left side 1,3,5,7 had a 50 ml return rate which was good and the right side 2,4,6,8 had a 13 mil rate of return which was bad. and that I should change get this the L side. They had a type-o. I took it to the mechanic and told him that I needed 2,4,6,8 changed out. He said ok. He found the test results and thought i was wrong and took out 1,3,5,7 and put new ones in. When I went to pick it up the truck sounded the exact same except for there was a loud snapping sound like every time the cylinder was getting signal. He said because he used an AC Delco injector and an off brand O-ring from Autozone I believe. I don't honestly know. but supposedly he had to get an O-ring from the dealership where he got the injectors because the O-rings on the originals needed to be replaced and he had to wait to get them. When he popped the hood I noticed he had changed the wrong side. He told me he hadn't. He showed me the test result paper and showed the last sentence where they said they recommended changing the L Side. I pointed right above it at the test results and told him that was a typo and he dropped his jaw and stormed back in his office. and just said he would take care of it. Well 2 weeks later my truck was done he said he left the new ones where they were and put my old ones from 1,3,5,7 in 2,4,6,8. Ok thats fine.. but why does the chart on my torque pro sho the new ones of being worse than the old ones. And why is the truck quite as a mouse when it is cold but almost instantly when the truck gets warm I can here the knocking just come on at once and get louder. also I get a very very small amount of smoke when I take off. I can see it in peoples head lights at night but not during the day. so I am not too concerned with that. Keep in mind as I left the mechanic I had to come right back 3 times because of a wiring harness on the drivers side near my turbo and firewall came unplugged on the side of the motor and the truck ran awful. and leave and come back and my turbo hose on the intercooler came off 2 more times. Then the coolant plug.

The being nervous of not knowing how to pull injectors, the baby being born so time, and the mechanic quoted so cheap I thought I would go with it. Well I have decided I will wrench myself.

back ground on me No as I said I am not a mechanic I would qualify as a part changer. for a day job I am a gunsmith for one of the bigger gun companies. I have no problem working with my hands / taking stuff apart and putting it back together. yes I know I could take it to a dealership. but I have been to 3 mechanics and to be honest I feel like they are all full of crap. I had one guy on here that I would love to take the truck too that is 5 hours south of me because everyone spoke highly of him on another post I had. but frankly I don't have the time to do the 5 hour drive one way when I am confident I can wrench it myself. So that is the story. If I left anything out I will add it.

I checked the wiring harness on the #1 injector and I don't see anything off with it. I tried wiggling it with my banana hands and I couldn't tell much. I will say right above it my wiring harness I don't know which one it is has some wires streched and bent extremely tight and rubbing on another harness. it looks like it could result in a nightmare later. As for the 3 ground wires. I haven't crawled under yet. I will update on that soon.

Once again thank you guys for taking the time to help and if not anything else listen to me wine and cry lol about my crappy situation. I want to badly for this truck to be great. I just keep having my doubts. I feel like if someone knew what they where doing and was around it would be like o shit thats the problem right there. Problem is I don't know that person and I am doubting he is in Kansas city. Or willing to help

 

[Burn Down]

Sorry it has been so long since I have been on to respond. My wife went back to work this week and we car pool and she works a longer shift so I leave and it is dark and I get home take care of the baby and what not and go to bed. I haven't been able to get to in depth they in the truck. I remember the mechanic said the cylinders all looked brand new and he didn't see any scratching or anything and all the tests he ran were good. Now I am assuming he didn't do a compression check but he may have. My next dilemma is I have actually never saw how an injector comes out. do they just un screw like a spark plug or what. Does anyone know of a video where they pull an injector out of an LLY? If they would post the link that would be great.

The test the Stealership an was the flow rate test. it stated that the left side 1,3,5,7 had a 50 ml return rate which was good and the right side 2,4,6,8 had a 13 mil rate of return which was bad. and that I should change get this the L side. They had a type-o. I took it to the mechanic and told him that I needed 2,4,6,8 changed out. He said ok. He found the test results and thought i was wrong and took out 1,3,5,7 and put new ones in. When I went to pick it up the truck sounded the exact same except for there was a loud snapping sound like every time the cylinder was getting signal. He said because he used an AC Delco injector and an off brand O-ring from Autozone I believe. I don't honestly know. but supposedly he had to get an O-ring from the dealership where he got the injectors because the O-rings on the originals needed to be replaced and he had to wait to get them. When he popped the hood I noticed he had changed the wrong side. He told me he hadn't. He showed me the test result paper and showed the last sentence where they said they recommended changing the L Side. I pointed right above it at the test results and told him that was a typo and he dropped his jaw and stormed back in his office. and just said he would take care of it. Well 2 weeks later my truck was done he said he left the new ones where they were and put my old ones from 1,3,5,7 in 2,4,6,8. Ok thats fine.. but why does the chart on my torque pro sho the new ones of being worse than the old ones. And why is the truck quite as a mouse when it is cold but almost instantly when the truck gets warm I can here the knocking just come on at once and get louder. also I get a very very small amount of smoke when I take off. I can see it in peoples head lights at night but not during the day. so I am not too concerned with that. Keep in mind as I left the mechanic I had to come right back 3 times because of a wiring harness on the drivers side near my turbo and firewall came unplugged on the side of the motor and the truck ran awful. and leave and come back and my turbo hose on the intercooler came off 2 more times. Then the coolant plug.

The being nervous of not knowing how to pull injectors, the baby being born so time, and the mechanic quoted so cheap I thought I would go with it. Well I have decided I will wrench myself.

back ground on me No as I said I am not a mechanic I would qualify as a part changer. for a day job I am a gunsmith for one of the bigger gun companies. I have no problem working with my hands / taking stuff apart and putting it back together. yes I know I could take it to a dealership. but I have been to 3 mechanics and to be honest I feel like they are all full of crap. I had one guy on here that I would love to take the truck too that is 5 hours south of me because everyone spoke highly of him on another post I had. but frankly I don't have the time to do the 5 hour drive one way when I am confident I can wrench it myself. So that is the story. If I left anything out I will add it.

I checked the wiring harness on the #1 injector and I don't see anything off with it. I tried wiggling it with my banana hands and I couldn't tell much. I will say right above it my wiring harness I don't know which one it is has some wires streched and bent extremely tight and rubbing on another harness. it looks like it could result in a nightmare later. As for the 3 ground wires. I haven't crawled under yet. I will update on that soon.

Once again thank you guys for taking the time to help and if not anything else listen to me wine and cry lol about my crappy situation. I want to badly for this truck to be great. I just keep having my doubts. I feel like if someone knew what they where doing and was around it would be like o shit thats the problem right there. Problem is I don't know that person and I am doubting he is in Kansas city. Or willing to help

Oh boy.... Dude, your mechanic put your shitty ass injectors from the left bank into the right bank... I'm not surprised it runs like ass! 50ml on the left is bad.

I'm going to say it again. A high pressure common rail is not something to cut your mechanic teeth on. Most techs get days of training to work on these fuel systems.

Now if your hell bent on fixing it your self, you will need to replace the right bank. Not sure why your dealer just tested the whole bank, but I test them individually. My guess is you only have one or 2 that are returning to much fuel.

 

[Burn Down]

And the snapping noise you heard was because he either didn't get all the carbon out of the cylinder head where the injector rides or he left the f-ing hold down bolt loose... The o-ring does absolutely nothing but keep dirt and grime from packing around the injector bodies. There is a copper washer/seal that is what keeps the exhaust gases in the cylinder and not pushing up around the injector causing a hissing or snapping sound.

This thread has the return rate tests listed from GMhttp://www.duramaxdiesels.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69144&page=2

 

[Moose0011]

I guess I don't understand.. HAHA go figure. How injector 1 is running so bad but all on that bank are brand new and they are running worse than the bank that are all used...

does one back effect the other bank. Say since those are all new they will run bad because of one injector bad on the other bank?

 

[Burn Down]

They can affect each other, or 1 is a dud, has a bent rod, washed out cylinder, a compression test would tell the tale.

 

[PureHybrid]

Wow I'm so confused at this point.

But I can say the dealership really messed with you on the return rates. 50ml would be BAD not good, and they list the left side as 1-3-5-7, which is false. The left or drivers side is 2-4-6-8.

Just have to post the current balance rates you have, and redo the return test again. I'm lost

And x2 on the injector orings, they aren't super important, just there to keep out dirt. You could leave them out in an emergency.

 

[Moose0011]

I may have the left hand side and the numbers messed up on what they said. I just know they had them flopped at the end.

today I checked my balance rate when I got to work it was knocking loud and it goes as followed on cylinder balance rates. I was in drive with my foot on the brake going no where.

1= 8.9
2= -1.3
3= 4.2
4= 1.7
5= -4.0
6= -1.9
7= -2.3
8= -5.1

On the way home this after noon I didn't have hardly any knocking. I mean there was some I would hear every once in a while but not much so when I got home I checked them while in drive with my foot on the break and they were as follows

1= 4.2
2=-0.3
3= 5.4
4= 2.1
5=-3.3
6=-1.5
7=-2.4
8=-4.5

I can't believe they said 50 ml was good. I will see if I can copy the paper they give me stating it and put it up on here. maybe that will help you guys out more. I don't know they really didn't say it was bad nor good. they just made it sound like the 13 ml was bad and I needed to replace that side.

the return test cost me $370 dollars. I honestly don't have that at the moment.