My dads trans in his L5P is not happy
. I’m too lazy to finish installing the twin turbos on the LMM.January '23 Chat -- "New Year, New Gear!"
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. I’m too lazy to finish installing the twin turbos on the LMM.
Looks good James. Can't beat that price. Unless of course it falls apart in a week
Epoxy will "yellow" in no time, especially at the door. It will probably start to look green
Did you take any moisture readings of the concrete prior to putting the epoxy down? High moisture can cause large sheets of epoxy to peal right off and is a pain to deal with if you don't deal with it before hand
Most shop or garage floors, it's recommended to use polyuria or polyaspartic resin as it can withstand the chemicals, oils and heat better then epoxy. UV stable too so it won't yellow at the doors or any area with sun.
Acrilic resin is also a good choice. Such as methyl methacrylate. As it any urethane really
How did you deal with the cracks and seams?
Fisheyes can normally be dealt with by adding a little fumed silica or or other extremely fine powder mixed in. Or you can lightly broadcast some 30 - 60 mesh sand over it to break the surface tension. It also helps with the bonding of your next coat.
How long did you wait between coats?
Otherwise awesome job. Not easy for a DIY install.
Epoxy will "yellow" in no time, especially at the door. It will probably start to look green
Did you take any moisture readings of the concrete prior to putting the epoxy down? High moisture can cause large sheets of epoxy to peal right off and is a pain to deal with if you don't deal with it before hand
Most shop or garage floors, it's recommended to use polyuria or polyaspartic resin as it can withstand the chemicals, oils and heat better then epoxy. UV stable too so it won't yellow at the doors or any area with sun.
Acrilic resin is also a good choice. Such as methyl methacrylate. As it any urethane really
How did you deal with the cracks and seams?
Fisheyes can normally be dealt with by adding a little fumed silica or or other extremely fine powder mixed in. Or you can lightly broadcast some 30 - 60 mesh sand over it to break the surface tension. It also helps with the bonding of your next coat.
How long did you wait between coats?
Otherwise awesome job. Not easy for a DIY install.
Thank God Evan was able to take Mike's shop over before Mike passed. All is right with the world.Starting the new year off right
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James, get a bit high while doing the floor? When we did Merchant's new shop floor way back (in what? 2008?) Boy o boy was that epoxy something you didnt want to breathe in heavily. From what I gather, its still holding up.
On a side note, Im sure getting tired of this site being used by newbies as "Fixya".
Looks good James. Can't beat that price. Unless of course it falls apart in a week
Epoxy will "yellow" in no time, especially at the door. It will probably start to look green Correct but it wont matter what clear i put on it, its going to yellow. luckily all my doors are north facing accept one man door facing west.
Did you take any moisture readings of the concrete prior to putting the epoxy down? High moisture can cause large sheets of epoxy to peal right off and is a pain to deal with if you don't deal with it before hand negative BUT i had heaters running in the shop for 2 days to dry out concrete/interior. id let them run for 12 hours, open the doors and have a fan run for an hour to move the moisture out, then repeat. floor temp needed to be above 50* as well. first application went down with it at 65*
Most shop or garage floors, it's recommended to use polyuria or polyaspartic resin as it can withstand the chemicals, oils and heat better then epoxy. UV stable too so it won't yellow at the doors or any area with sun. Surprisingly, thats the first i heard of that. everyone i talked to basically used the polycurmane as its no VOC. im not sure if the polyuria or polyaspartic has any VOC but ive been told thats a big issue due to f-ing cali crap
Acrilic resin is also a good choice. Such as methyl methacrylate. As it any urethane really. Problem is, acrylic resin is water based and wont stand up. an urethane hybrid would be better but i still dont see them standing up with a crap compared to a 100% solids epoxy. if it would have, i would have just coated the floor with the acrylic urethane stains we make for grouts.
How did you deal with the cracks and seams? Used our new elite product. its again, water based but i put it in over 2 weeks ago to allow a full cure. Didnt finish the top off till it was fully cured, then hit it with a floor scraper to make it flush to the concrete. this way i have no shrinkage lulls. im curious how it holds up with time so its more of a "test". the epoxy filler would have been way faster though, i just feel they dont stretch as much.
Fisheyes can normally be dealt with by adding a little fumed silica or or other extremely fine powder mixed in. Or you can lightly broadcast some 30 - 60 mesh sand over it to break the surface tension. It also helps with the bonding of your next coat. Mine actually wasnt all that bad. i had more outgassing bubbles than fisheyes. maybe 5-6 spots? they covered/stuck once the epoxy finally setup a little. i think i had about 10-12 bubbles i had to keep popping and rolling for about 3-4 hours after initial lay down till the epoxy setup enough to retain it.
How long did you wait between coats? about 24 hours per their directions. since its not a true primer coat that goes down first, they claim the second coat will self adhere. the epoxy was just a touch tacky (i mean every so slightly with you bare foot standing in place for a few min, not enough to leave an imprint though) so i feel the second coat got a good grip on the primer. i think the hardener is a slow reacting kind as well or it was just the fact air temps were in the high 50's each day.
Otherwise awesome job. Not easy for a DIY install.
the way i look at it, if it falls apart in a week, it was worth the trial. i gave it every chance i could minus the grinding. i have a feeling, it anywhere will be an issue, it will be where the toyhauler is parked. alot of weight on 3 small points. i did let it cure for almost 72 hours before i parked anything in there. it felt rock solid.
rest i answered in red in the quote
lol well half way through the first coat, fish says "can we open the doors? i aint feelin right" lmao. there was a bit of a noxious odor for sure but i dont know that it was causing a high cause none of us had headaches or got loopy. might be due to the fact its no VOC. ill bet the stuff merchant used is the legit good shit before they started making changes.
Red replies in blue. Get it? Red, white and blueLooks good James. Can't beat that price. Unless of course it falls apart in a week
Epoxy will "yellow" in no time, especially at the door. It will probably start to look green Correct but it wont matter what clear i put on it, its going to yellow. luckily all my doors are north facing accept one man door facing west. Yeah it's more aesthetics then anything else. If it's really bad you can get a chalky like powder that builds up on the surface but you'll probably have other issues before then
Did you take any moisture readings of the concrete prior to putting the epoxy down? High moisture can cause large sheets of epoxy to peal right off and is a pain to deal with if you don't deal with it before hand negative BUT i had heaters running in the shop for 2 days to dry out concrete/interior. id let them run for 12 hours, open the doors and have a fan run for an hour to move the moisture out, then repeat. floor temp needed to be above 50* as well. first application went down with it at 65* I was referring more to the internal concrete moisture levels. Excessive moisture in the concrete tries to escape. In doing so dissolves some of the salts along the way. When they reach the bond line between the epoxy and concrete the salts get deposited and recrystallize. This exerts tremendous force that debonds the epoxy. The simple test is to tape a piece of plastic down and see if you get any condensation build up under it. This doesn't tell you how much and doesn't measure low levels which may still cause problems. Another more accurate method is the use of calcium chloride which has a high affinity for moisture. This is placed under a sealed dome with freshly prepared concrete. Left for a period of time and then weighted. The newest kid on the block is the moisture probes that are installed in holes drilled in the concrete and an electric meter is used to read out the temperature and humidity. Each manufacturer will have their own limits on maximum moisture allowed. Most water based products don't have a limit or it's really high as moisture vapor is supposed to freely pass through. Epoxy generally has a low limit of what it can tolerate. When I used to install this stuff, out of hundreds of tests, I might find one or two a year that was below the limit. New slabs and slabs on pore draining soil where always the worst. Even above grade slabs took a year or more to come down enough to not need a special primer to deal with the moisture. In the end though, for the few that declined the cost of the special primer the failure rate was low and even lower in the first few years
Most shop or garage floors, it's recommended to use polyuria or polyaspartic resin as it can withstand the chemicals, oils and heat better then epoxy. UV stable too so it won't yellow at the doors or any area with sun. Surprisingly, thats the first i heard of that. everyone i talked to basically used the polycurmane as its no VOC. im not sure if the polyuria or polyaspartic has any VOC but ive been told thats a big issue due to f-ing cali crap polycurmane from my understanding is just rustoleum's blend of urethane, polyuria and epoxy. Not sure how they manage this, like many others, because urethanes and polyuria/aspartic will steel the amines from the epoxy during the curing causing them to not fully cure or be soft in the end. Putting a urethane over an epoxy too early can do this too. From my understanding it's cheaper then a pure polyuria / aspartic or urethane and has higher compressive strength due to the epoxy. Basically trying to obtain the best features of both but not as good as each ones pros. Urethanes, polyuria and polyaspartics while not as hard as epoxy, has higher abrasion and impact resistance, higher chemical resistance and UV resistance. All better for a shop floor. Downside is higher cost and more sensitive application and environmental requirements
Acrilic resin is also a good choice. Such as methyl methacrylate. As it any urethane really. Problem is, acrylic resin is water based and wont stand up. an urethane hybrid would be better but i still dont see them standing up with a crap compared to a 100% solids epoxy. if it would have, i would have just coated the floor with the acrylic urethane stains we make for grouts. While that is true for water based acrilics. Solvent based acrilics are a world different.
How did you deal with the cracks and seams? Used our new elite product. its again, water based but i put it in over 2 weeks ago to allow a full cure. Didnt finish the top off till it was fully cured, then hit it with a floor scraper to make it flush to the concrete. this way i have no shrinkage lulls. im curious how it holds up with time so its more of a "test". the epoxy filler would have been way faster though, i just feel they dont stretch as much. Did you apply the epoxy right over the control joints? Did you saw cut the joint back out then apply the calking? If not then it's likely to crack at all the control joints. But once again, it's more aesthetics then function
Fisheyes can normally be dealt with by adding a little fumed silica or or other extremely fine powder mixed in. Or you can lightly broadcast some 30 - 60 mesh sand over it to break the surface tension. It also helps with the bonding of your next coat. Mine actually wasnt all that bad. i had more outgassing bubbles than fisheyes. maybe 5-6 spots? they covered/stuck once the epoxy finally setup a little. i think i had about 10-12 bubbles i had to keep popping and rolling for about 3-4 hours after initial lay down till the epoxy setup enough to retain it.
How long did you wait between coats? about 24 hours per their directions. since its not a true primer coat that goes down first, they claim the second coat will self adhere. the epoxy was just a touch tacky (i mean every so slightly with you bare foot standing in place for a few min, not enough to leave an imprint though) so i feel the second coat got a good grip on the primer. i think the hardener is a slow reacting kind as well or it was just the fact air temps were in the high 50's each day. Tacky epoxy is actually the best time to recoat. Sounds like you got it.
Otherwise awesome job. Not easy for a DIY install.
ha!Red replies in blue. Get it? Red, white and blue
yeah i dont know on the moisture content then. im sure it wasnt optimum as the native soil is all clay based around here and holds moisture like hell. there is no vapor barrier under the concrete either. Supposably this stuff will hold back 17 lbs/sq in of pressure. not sure that means much though. i know they claim it works like a primer coat for sealing off the moisture but might be a sales gimmick?
ooohhh well maybe im thinking wrong on the type of epoxy. i did a ton of research on the rustoleum stuff so maybe thats why its stuck in my head. i just went to their site and its a cycloaliphatic epoxy and isophorone diamine hardener. seems like good shit?
so the control joints were all saw cut 1.25" to begin with (5" thick slab). i then cleared them by dragging a nail through them (vise grips on the nail lol) and then vac-ing them out. I then shoved the caulk into the joint and overfilled to allow for shinkage and to get a clean, flat cut when i trimmed it. probably 1/4" of it above crack while there was a good 3/8 to 1/2 jammed into the crack. went through about 24 tubes. the caulking wont crack, it will stretch 500%, specially with that much in the joint BUT im curious how much the epoxy will move. im going to order a small amount of epoxy to keep on hand and mix up for patches/cracks as time goes on.
"Low VOC" is an interesting one. Some solvents are exempt from the list. Water for obvious reasons, acetone and alcohol are some I can think of off the top of my head. It also doesn't really take into account the thinners or solvents added after
MEK is one of the best thinners per volume but is getting increasingly harder to find. At least in California.
Acetone is my favorite as it thins really good and is compatible with epoxy. Downside is it flashes off a little quick. alcohol, such as the denatured ethanol also works great but is not always compatible. Also has the same downside as acetone with it's short working time.
Xylene is a good one too if you can tolerate the smell. Doesn't meet VOC so is always added after mixing
Mineral spirits, orderless or regular is good for only select chemistries. Orderless is supposed to be lower VOC but it's funny because all of it has to evaporate before the epoxy cures. So I don't understand how this changes the VOC. Does give longer working time. Orderless versions are anything but orderless to me
Propanol Acetate is an interesting one. Good solvent for many chemistries. Even for urethanes and polyaspartics and ureas. Most can tolerate the smell with some finding it sweet smelling. Working time between acetone and xylene. Not VOC compliant. Can be obtained from Sherwin Williams as reducer 132
Don't know off the top of my head what the VOC rating is for vinyl ester resins but we where always made to wear full face respirators when using it. Stuff was potent. methyl methacrylate was another fun one with it's interesting oder. Heard many stories of buildings be evaluated due to the smell, fire department getting called out, etc. Supposedly no VOC. I think it's one of those "harmless" ones that not everyone reacts the same to. I didn't find it objectionable but knew many who did. The installation crew would always come up with bazar stories of their nether regions tingling after working with it for a while. Some jobs required respirators while others didn't. Interesting stuff. Could do a whole job in a night with how fast it cures
MEK is one of the best thinners per volume but is getting increasingly harder to find. At least in California.
Acetone is my favorite as it thins really good and is compatible with epoxy. Downside is it flashes off a little quick. alcohol, such as the denatured ethanol also works great but is not always compatible. Also has the same downside as acetone with it's short working time.
Xylene is a good one too if you can tolerate the smell. Doesn't meet VOC so is always added after mixing
Mineral spirits, orderless or regular is good for only select chemistries. Orderless is supposed to be lower VOC but it's funny because all of it has to evaporate before the epoxy cures. So I don't understand how this changes the VOC. Does give longer working time. Orderless versions are anything but orderless to me
Propanol Acetate is an interesting one. Good solvent for many chemistries. Even for urethanes and polyaspartics and ureas. Most can tolerate the smell with some finding it sweet smelling. Working time between acetone and xylene. Not VOC compliant. Can be obtained from Sherwin Williams as reducer 132
Don't know off the top of my head what the VOC rating is for vinyl ester resins but we where always made to wear full face respirators when using it. Stuff was potent. methyl methacrylate was another fun one with it's interesting oder. Heard many stories of buildings be evaluated due to the smell, fire department getting called out, etc. Supposedly no VOC. I think it's one of those "harmless" ones that not everyone reacts the same to. I didn't find it objectionable but knew many who did. The installation crew would always come up with bazar stories of their nether regions tingling after working with it for a while. Some jobs required respirators while others didn't. Interesting stuff. Could do a whole job in a night with how fast it cures
I was never a fan of restoleum flooring products. Seen too many failure. Their sales reps would stop by several times a year looking to wow us with some "new" and "improved" product that will change the industry. We would get samples to play around with. Always harder to apply. Didn't level out as well. Looked like crap and didn't hold up as well as everyone else we used. We would always apply the new stuff in our wearhouse so the forklift could drive on it and drag pallets over it. We could see how coatings fared over several years. Some of the high end restoleum stuff is good but out of reach cost wise for the average guy.
No one company was the best. Each one had a few products that where better then the other guy but the other guy had the upper hand on a different chemistry. Epoxy is an old technology so there is not much to improve on and most have that one figured out. But cheaper epoxies are still cheaper and good quality ones are more expensive. Finding the cheap and good quality was the trick. Dex-O-Tex impressed me the most with their quantity of good working products, along with the assortment to choose from. And being able to call and speak with the chemist was unique among them. Only really delt with the commercial resin companies so didn't get much time to see how these guys that sell direct to the public where.
I think your joints will be fine. Your not the only one to use that nail trick
My shop is much smaller, I had about $900 in coating mine. I went with the Por15 coating. My second option was going to be Macropoxy from Sherwin Williams. I did mine on fresh concrete too (well about a month after the pour), I washed the floor but didn't grind it, Amish guys hand trowel it so it's not real slick. It has some nicks in it already from dropping stuff on its edge, and yes it "yellows" a little by the garage door. Overall I'm happy, mopping up after a job is a breeze
i dont know how this stuff is NO VOC. thats a big claim because even our product has some VOC. granted ours is 1.5 g/l but its strictly due to the propylene glycol. regardless, we are well below cali's standard and future standards. i feel like you are setting yourself up for a surprise visit by saying "VOC Free" with this epoxy lol.
thats what i was trying to find out, who sells decent shit to the DIY'er but isnt overcharging me for what it is. to me, this seemed like that answer but time will tell. at the end of the day, i think my issue will be either from lack of grinding or the moisture from the concrete. we will see!!I was never a fan of restoleum flooring products. Seen too many failure. Their sales reps would stop by several times a year looking to wow us with some "new" and "improved" product that will change the industry. We would get samples to play around with. Always harder to apply. Didn't level out as well. Looked like crap and didn't hold up as well as everyone else we used. We would always apply the new stuff in our wearhouse so the forklift could drive on it and drag pallets over it. We could see how coatings fared over several years. Some of the high end restoleum stuff is good but out of reach cost wise for the average guy.
No one company was the best. Each one had a few products that where better then the other guy but the other guy had the upper hand on a different chemistry. Epoxy is an old technology so there is not much to improve on and most have that one figured out. But cheaper epoxies are still cheaper and good quality ones are more expensive. Finding the cheap and good quality was the trick. Dex-O-Tex impressed me the most with their quantity of good working products, along with the assortment to choose from. And being able to call and speak with the chemist was unique among them. Only really delt with the commercial resin companies so didn't get much time to see how these guys that sell direct to the public where.
I think your joints will be fine. Your not the only one to use that nail trick
and yeah, considering i make caulks, i better install the way i tell contractors to do it lmao! i keep tyring different things with this elite stuff to see what it likes and doesnt like. by no means will it be for epoxy floor guys due to the cure time but im getting the guys that built my buidling to buy it for sealing up windows and doors. they dont seal the edging, just the top rain gutter so any cross wind with rain and they leak (surprisingly, this is far more than what other steel building guys do). gave them some to use on a problem building up north and worked great. id like to talk them into sealing the saw cut joints too and ill make them a generic concrete color for it.
yeah thats what im after at the end of the day. looks nice but it really just because im gunna spill diesel oil everywhere
Sherwin Williams macropoxy is "ok" but there is much better stuff. Sherwin Williams has the general polymers line that is far better. I believe they restrict it to only those with an account though.
It's the use of exempt solvents or finger crossing that allows them to claim zero VOC.
How much did you pay per gallon for the epoxy?
If you have any failures, I don't think it will be from lack of grinding. If you acid washed it correctly then that is at least as good as grinding. I did a bunch of bond strength testing with some fancy equipment and acid wash was the best followed closely by diamond grinding. Shot blasting was next with scarifying coming in last. We used multiple grits and shot sizes. We found the least damage you do to the concrete while opening up the fresh concrete was the best. You can over do acid wash but if done right leaves no microfractures in the concrete that can lead to failure
MEK, Xylene, Toluene, Naphtha And now mineral spirits are on the California No No list... Usually comes from out of state.
Mineral Spirits is a recent thing I believe as of 2022.
On a Side note... I have done something illegal. Can you recommend some one to help me cover up a crime? Please Give the full name, adress, and Road Map on how to locate them.
And yes we are all fortunate that worked out with evan.
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