It started - once! Frustration grows...

[ClarkeF]

Hi all,

I finally got my transplant started this weekend. I was stoked after last weekends wiring and soldering - when I got it almost all done and had it cranking over through the NSBU/ECU. Alas I still needed fuel.

This weekend, after figuring out that the EDU doesn't get filtered fuel, it gets unfiltered fuel and hooking up the fuel filter the right way instead of backwards (must be a check-valve or something inside the filter as I tried to blow out the lines when it was hooked up backwards and nada). I have fuel to the filter, and coming back out the return line. The battey was pretty dead as I had manually jumped the EDU relay last weekend (still need to fix that wiring - two grounds do not a relay enable) and left it energized all weeked.

I Charged the battery up overnight. Yesterday I did a scan for codes, added power feeds to the GPC and to the alternator stud to clear 2 of the 3 codes remaining. The last is the wait to start lamp circuit (no dash yet).

I cranked it and cranked it again, and then again, and it started! For the first time since buying this donor driveline 7 years ago it was alive! The throttle worked and I was playing with it when I noticed what looked like red ATF or coolant on the ground so I turned the ignition off. the liquid was what looks like DexCool coolant and came from the turbo compressor output. Anyone have any idea why coolant would be in the turbo intake? I hadn't sealed the intake well, just stuffed it with rags so it's possible rainwater soaked the rags and collected in the intake to the turbo? But why red/orange coolant?

Anyway, once I figured out the source for the liquid, I tried to start it again. Nothing. It cranks and cranks and just doesn't start. No new fault codes, no problems. I'm getting fuel from the return line after I stop cranking so I have to assume that fuel is available. I had run the battery down so charged it over night. This morning - same result, cranks, a hint of diesel smell in the exhaust, but no fire.

Any thoughts on where to start to look? If this was a 6.5 I'd be cracking injectors.. If it has never started, I'd be looking at my wiring. I was so excited to have it running for the first time ever, and certainly since I merged the harnesses - and now nothing.

I'd appreciate any pointers.

Regards,

Clarke

 

[JoshH]

Do you have anything you can use to scan while you are cranking?

 

[ClarkeF]

EFILive and Autoenginuity scanners.

The interfaces are a bit funky so I'm still trying to figure out - I setup oil pressure, +5v ref 1,2, 3, RPM and so on with the autoenguity scanner when cranking.

 

[JoshH]

Check fuel rail pressure while cranking.

 

[ClarkeF]

I found the "cranks no-start troubleshooting checklist in the manual. I'm going to start with that. I'll report back.

Thanks!

 

[ClarkeF]

Okay.

Working through the non-start checklist.

Still no start.

Initially no DTC's set.
Actual fuel rail pressure is 1.8 MPa
Ignition 1 voltage = B+
No problems with fuel contamination - new fuel
I can hand-prime Neil the primer pump gets very hard to press (no actual gauge yet). System stays primed for > 2 min
Does not Start when pumped up
I haven't done a compression test - this was. 3 miles on the odd motor
When I crank for 15 second the actual fuel rail pressure does NOT build to more than 10MPa. It stays at 1.8 MPa.
Which takes me to the high-pressure fuel system diagnostics page.

That is as far as I can get with the tools I have.

Don't know why it started once, but won't start again. Looks like my fuel system won't build pressure. Is that a leaking injector or a fuel pressure regulator or? Help!

Cheers,

Clarke

 

[duratothemax]

Clarke have you done an injector return-rate test? Is there any way you can put a lift pump on it, just to rule out any last little bit of air in the system preventing it from priming?

 

[ClarkeF]

What does an injector return-rate test look like? Am I looking for lots of return or little? I assume I remove each return line in sequence and measure something like no fuel return which would indicate an injector stuck open and not letting pressure build in the rails?

I can put a lift pump on it. I actually went and bought parts to adapt my original 6.5td engines lift pump to put it inline. I'm using a couple short lengths of hose to a fuel jug sitting in the cab as my "tank" while I wait for SAE30R9 hose to arrive to plumb up the real thing.

I thought I would pull all the lines and original filter assembly I put together last weekend and re-do them all with fresh clamps. I also need to assemble a fuel pressure gauge for the test port.

The engine has been sitting for seven years. It has 3 miles on it when I bought it from Schram. I hope nothing is seriously wrong with it...

Cheers,

Clarke

 

[SmokeShow]

Unplug FICM or propper fuse (can't remember fuse but if you search, it's been discussed multiple times), Pull glow plugs & crank it. If fuel comes out glow plug holes, you have a hung injector(s).


Did you try cranking with the regulator on the CP3 unplugged to see if it builds more pressure?


It is a bit strange it ran once & now nada.

 

[ClarkeF]

Did you try cranking with the regulator on the CP3 unplugged to see if it builds more pressure?


It is a bit strange it ran once & now nada.

I agree! So much frustration after years of waiting and working... I didn't even get my video to share with friends.... "It's alllllliivvveeee.. Oops. Sorry, never mind!"

Is there only one connection on the cp3 (that is the main furl pressure pump correct in the front of the valley correct?)? That would tell me it is the regulator correct?

 

[SmokeShow]

I'm talking about unplugging the electronic plug on the regulator in the CP3 which is the high pressure fuel pump in the valley. I know it defaults to WFO (wide F'n open) when the regulator loses power or is unplugged. My only thing is I don't know if it'll go WFO during the cranking sequence or not? Someone can probably clear that up for sure.

That test won't tell you much though until some other items are removed from the least of possibilities. It'd just mean the system either isn't making pressure (bad CP3) or not holding the pressure it is creating (leak).

You need to check the injectors first (remove glow plugs like I described previously) before much else IMO.

 

[SmokeShow]

If you pull glow plugs & crank with injector fuse removed (this stops them from opening during cranking) & find no fuel (it'll look like a fog or mist blowing out of glow plug hole most likely if the injector is hung open) then proceed to test the injector return rates.

Procedure can be found in thread called "injector Return Rate Results" on about page 3 in the general lounge section. I tried posting link but I'm on my phone & had an issue with cut & paste. Sorry.


Good luck dude!

 

[ClarkeF]

Today's update.

I pulled the 3-wire connector to what I believe is the CP3/fuel pressure regulator. That caused a P090 fault FPR circuit current which would lean toward me getting the correct connector. I also reclamped and inspected the fuel filter and fuel lines, added a lift pump, pressurized and bled the fuel system.

Actual fuel rail pressure when cranking is 1.8MPa - so no change from when the FPR it is connected. So I'm thinking bad FPR? Can the CP3 pump overcome a leaky injector and pressurize the common rails anyway. I hate to think that I have a bad pump on a 3 mile motor... Of course it has been sitting for years.

I pulled all the glow plugs out, except for back right which can't be removed fully because the body is in the way. I can and did slide it out so I can see around it. Pulled the FICM relay. Crank and no visible fog of fuel. For that matter none f the glow plugs I pulled were wet with fuel.

I reconnected the FiCM relay and cranked - also no puffs of fuel.

Now what?

 

[SmokeShow]

I'd do return rate test.

But yes, the FPR could be bad after sitting so long. My understanding is the diesel fuel leaves a film on the parts that can gum up the parts after sitting for extended periods. I believe it's more common on injectors & FPRs.

It's still puzzling though that it has ran once. So I tend to not think its gummed up or hung parts. Unless gunk was pushed through system that took a little bit to jam things up, hence it ran but won't now.

You say you have fuel lift pump hooked up & working now? So you've primed the lines with the pump, cracked the bleeder screw until pure fuel flows out w/o bubbles?

Any smoke out exhaust? If so, what Color is the smoke?

 

[ClarkeF]

It is possible that something was inside the fuel lines past the filter - dirt or debris- and that did get pushed into the pump or rails when I hooked up the lines and added fuel.

Is the FPR a serviceable part? I can hardly see the CP3 assembly under all the other stuff that is there.

Maybe I should flush the rails and lines.

Any suggestions for a home-made injector return test rig?

Thanks!

 

[ClarkeF]

Sorry, yes I have a lift pump, fuel no bubbles.

 

[SmokeShow]

Yes, the return rate test is simple I believe, Ive never done it personally though. Just search for "injector return test) & I'm sure you'll find a thread outlining the procedure. I can't remember the exact steps.


I wish the folks smarter than me would chime in to help.

 

[gmac32]

when i am trying to find a bad injector i pull the return on each bank till i find the side it is on and then i start doing each injector.

 

[ClarkeF]

when i am trying to find a bad injector i pull the return on each bank till i find the side it is on and then i start doing each injector.

Do you mean measure the return flow from each bank, and go after the injectors on the side that returns the least amount of fuel?

Cheers,

Clarke

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Are you SURE it is getting fuel to the CP3 and fuel system? Is this an LB& or LLY? You said you rerouted the fuel lines at the filter head, I would start there and make sure you got fuel going to the CP3 as it sounds like you may have hooked it up backwards and blocked fuel flow to the CP3.