Is this a true statement regarding fuel economy?

slowfive0

New member
Dec 31, 2013
5
0
0
I'm sure you can figure out where this information (see quote below) came from and I think it's pretty clear from the threads I've read that these "claimed gains of 4-7 mpg" are from the DIC and are false. That isn't my question. My question is:

Is his statement about the factory softening up the bottom end torque for emissions true? If so, I could see (in theory) where a person could gain back an easy 1 - 2 mpg with a tune. I have a 2015 2500 HD and I'm getting 17 average (mixed driving). The truck easily gets over 20mpg out on the road doing 65 or 70. Probably would do 20 at 75mph but I haven't tested that yet. Either way, it gets great fuel economy. I would love to have more power, get rid of the dead pedal and get 18 or 19 in my driving........

Here is what the guys says about his philosophy/strategy on these tunes:

Automotive manufacturers are being pushed to meet different levels every few years. Along with the added emissions devices that restrict the motor they are also de-tuning the low-end power curve of the engine to meet these standards .

Diesel engines only have to meet standards up to certain engine RPM.

Yes the newer trucks do have higher horsepower ratings... but this rating is at 3400 RPM. When you drive your truck at highway speeds (1500-2000 RPM) you end up lugging the engine because it has been de-tuned on this low-end RPM.

The result is less than optimal fuel economy.

Diesels are a workhorse engine and are designed for High-Torque output at low-RPM.

When the factory takes the power from the bottom-end and moves it further up the RPM range to cut emissions... this robs the peak efficiency of the engine and also affects the power you need to get big loads moving out of the hole.

Today you can find dozens of websites making fuel mileage claims because of the high demand for better fuel mileage. The problem is none of these companies products can consistently put their money where their mouth is. I know this because we talk to dozens of Duramax truck owners every week who have installed these products and tell us the results.

These products are not solving the problem of the de-tuned low-end power curve of the engine!

INCREASE YOUR (LOW-END) TORQUE ='S INCREASING MPG

Several years ago I discovered that the simplest way to squeeze more miles per gallon on the Duramax was to recalibrate the trucks fuel maps and "increase the engine's low-end torque rise".

Tuning the Duramax motor with custom fuel and timing maps I am able to adjust the engine's low-end power curve giving it a faster torque rise and some of our customers are reporting to us they are seeing mileage gains of 4-7 MPG running empty and 20% increase while to wing. (see Testimonies)

Remapping the engines "fuel and timing tables" changes the "peak efficiency" of the motor to match your driving/towing RPM speed. This low-end torque rise significantly improves fuel economy because the engine now does more work with less effort.

Some of our Duramax customers tell us they were once getting 13-15 MPG and are now seeing up to 18-23 MPG and they get over 100 more miles out of every tank of fuel.

Imagine how much our customers are saving in fuel costs when they get 100 more miles out of every tank of fuel!

Faster torque rise at a LOWER-RPM also results in stronger "bottom end". This helps you pull hills in higher gears and faster speeds. Pulling heavy loads out of the hole becomes a breeze.
 

PureHybrid

Isuzu Shakes IT
Feb 15, 2012
3,492
472
83
Central OH
The fact it says diesels only have to meet emissions standards up to a certain RPM made me shake my head.....

Only increases in fuel mileage IMO are from increased timing, more pressure, and less vane position. They don't need more low end fueling, just give it more throttle! Sounds like they are selling a product, not just stating facts.
 

Hot COCOAL

May the farce be with you
Jun 9, 2012
4,433
0
0
Sure adding power and torque "can" yield additional fuel mileage, if you drive it for economy!

I especially like how they are emphasizing adding "torque low in the RPM"
Cuz from what I gather from everything I read is, that's the leading cause of bending and breaking stock parts...
:dontknow:
 

JoshH

Daggum farm truck
Staff member
Vendor/Sponsor
Feb 14, 2007
13,712
773
113
Texas!!!
The LML is rated for peak horsepower of 397 @ 3000 RPM and peak torque of 765 @ 1600 RPM. I'm not sure how much lower you would need or want to move the peak torque.
 

slowfive0

New member
Dec 31, 2013
5
0
0
For sure! I'm not buying into his sales pitch (especially after reading numerous threads on it).

I'm not 100% on who to go with for a tune. I think I'm going to wait a year or so and see who seems to have the best product (while keeping the emissions equipment intact). I've heard great things about Kory and Idaho Rob. I'm just not sure they do combos maintaining the emission equipment......?

I know Nick does a setup maintaining all of the factory equipment. Seems awesome, but threads are all over the place with regards to his work vs Cory/Rob.........

I don't have a ton of time to read these threads so after an hour or two of opinions all over the boards, I'm left more confused then before.

Add to the fact that they can tell your junk has been tuned, I'm very hesitant to mess with it right now (13,000 miles) for fear of some failure and getting my warranty denied. Probably will wait until its out of warranty....sigh

The fact it says diesels only have to meet emissions standards up to a certain RPM made me shake my head.....

Only increases in fuel mileage IMO are from increased timing, more pressure, and less vane position. They don't need more low end fueling, just give it more throttle! Sounds like they are selling a product, not just stating facts.


LOL! Yep! Taking advantage of the people that don't go on the net much. Anyone can do a little research and see his claims seem for the most part bogus.

Stay away from this BS'er. 4-7 MPG gain:roflmao:


What causes that (breakage)? Are they pouring more fuel to it down low and hydro-locking the motor or something?

Sure adding power and torque "can" yield additional fuel mileage, if you drive it for economy!

I especially like how they are emphasizing adding "torque low in the RPM"
Cuz from what I gather from everything I read is, that's the leading cause of bending and breaking stock parts...
:dontknow:


I don't think anyone is moving the torque peak lower, just fattening up the torque/power across the entire band as they aren't worried about emissions or that huge safety factor that GM has built in. Seems to me, if you make the engine more efficient at a given range, ie increase torque at 1600 rpm then it would more efficiently move the mass of the truck around thereby saving fuel. Not sure though---hoping to get my answer in this discussion. Thanks guys.

The LML is rated for peak horsepower of 397 @ 3000 RPM and peak torque of 765 @ 1600 RPM. I'm not sure how much lower you would need or want to move the peak torque.
 

slowfive0

New member
Dec 31, 2013
5
0
0
I'm with you there. I'm 43 and this is my first new vehicle. I drove some '14's and imo the '15 is wayyyyy nicer inside. Very quiet, I love the interior and layout. I also like the infotainment system, etc. It was a hard decision but I had a guy that was dying to buy my old ride (S/C'd Silverado SS with 200,000 miles!) so I pulled the trigger. Always wanted to try out a diesel.

Sucky thing is we all know these powertrains are pretty much bullet proof within reason. Especially, with a basic tune type of mod, HOWEVER! If I just happen to be that one Murphys law case....... No thanks

Exactly, that's why I've never bought a new vehicle and I never will buy a new vehicle.
 

DAVe3283

Heavy & Slow
Sep 3, 2009
3,727
296
83
Boise, ID, USA
I believe Rob does tuning with emissions equipment still working. Before I started my build, I chatted with him about a new LMM he was tuning (man, my build has been going on a LONG time...) and it was running great. I wouldn't be surprised if he can do LMLs the same way (with all emissions).
 

JoshH

Daggum farm truck
Staff member
Vendor/Sponsor
Feb 14, 2007
13,712
773
113
Texas!!!
I'm not 100% on who to go with for a tune. I think I'm going to wait a year or so and see who seems to have the best product (while keeping the emissions equipment intact). I've heard great things about Kory and Idaho Rob. I'm just not sure they do combos maintaining the emission equipment......?
Unless something has changed, Rob doesn't even offer LML delete tuning. He may do it now; it has been a while since I checked.

I don't think anyone is moving the torque peak lower, just fattening up the torque/power across the entire band as they aren't worried about emissions or that huge safety factor that GM has built in. Seems to me, if you make the engine more efficient at a given range, ie increase torque at 1600 rpm then it would more efficiently move the mass of the truck around thereby saving fuel. Not sure though---hoping to get my answer in this discussion. Thanks guys.
My statement was in response to this:

Yes the newer trucks do have higher horsepower ratings... but this rating is at 3400 RPM. When you drive your truck at highway speeds (1500-2000 RPM) you end up lugging the engine because it has been de-tuned on this low-end RPM.
The peak horsepower is at 3000 RPM, not 3400. I don't even think the truck will fuel that high on a stock tune. 397 HP @ 3000 RPM would give 695 ft-lbs of torque. That makes for a pretty flat torque curve from it's peak of 1600 to 3000. His theory of lugging the engine sounds like a bunch of BS the me. I'm not saying there aren't gains to be had, but his reasoning is a little odd. Adding power won't make the engine more efficient, but making the engine more efficient will add power.