High Performance Allison Build - Advice on Parts?

[Synviks]

I'm looking to build up a high performance Allison 1000 to use behind a beefed up 7.3L in a Ford Superduty. The goal is high torque down low, with peak 1000-1200 ft-lb at 1600-1800 RPM, with HP topping out between 400-450.

The Allison I'm working with is a 2006 six speed that was behind a 8.1L in a 3500. At ~15,000 miles the truck took a hit and caused the bellhousing to crack (which is fine as I'm going to be using an SAE bellhousing anyway). The input shaft turns without issue and the fluid is spotless so I'm confident it's a solid core and won't need thrusts, bushings, or bearings done.

Given the above context I'm wondering what would be a good parts sheet for a build that will reliably handle what the engine is dishing out? This is what I've got so far:

-Goerend triple disc G stall converter
-C1-C4 clutch kit with Alto G3 or Raybestos GPZ (most seem to come with the LML style return spring, pressure plate, bonded piston).
-TransGo Jr kit
-Ratiotek RT-A01-PR
-MikeL Trim Springs
-Gasket n seal kit

This a good parts list? Anything I'm missing? What kind of clutch counts should I aim for? I've heard the kolene's in the Alto powerpacks can cut into the drum... maybe best to avoid them?

Wondering if there's any hard parts I should consider? Billet planetaries/hubs/shafts? Is there worth in cryotreatment to beef up the stock hard parts? I've seen some people perform a DIY heat treatment to harden the stock parts, this common or would it mess with part dimension too much? Would sleeving C2 be a good precautionary measure?

Any input is welcome. Thanks!

 

[Bdsankey]

I would be more than happy to help out! We build Allison's in house as well as selling parts/offering build support.

Personally I think stock hard parts would be perfectly fine for your application. If anything, a billet C2 hub wouldn't be a bad idea. Personally I don't have any major concerns with any shafts. As for stall speed, I think the G or X converter would fit well with a quick spooling 7.3L setup. With as cheap as thrust bearings are I would replace them while I'm in there. If the output bearing and all the other bushings look fine/don't have any wear then don't worry about changing the bushings.

*****Clutches*****
C1: 16 single sided frictions, take your pick on material as they're all up to the task you want.
C2: 7 friction setup with stock style steels (non-kolene) as the kolene eat up the drum. Take your pick on material.
C3/C4: I also would run a 6 friction setup with LML springs/pistons and kolene steels. I've been using the SCZ195, SCZ196, Alto Tan Parallel G3, and Xcalliber XX clutches. They all hold up very very well for what you want. The most compliant in my opinion is the SCZ196. Personally I think the SCZ195 holds the power the best out of those 4 but for your power level anything realistically will work with good setup.

*****Hydraulics*****
-Drill the C3 oiler holes regardless of your PTO cover choice, it's free lubrication and I do it on all of them regardless.
-RatioTek PR kit with just the orange spring. Grind the lockup valve to remove knockdown
-Drill the line-to-lube hole in the bell housing section of the case to improve cooler flow at low engine speed
-TransGo Jr with Mike's springs

Whatever you do, DO NOT use the steel TransGo shift valves they market for repair. If anything, ream the e valve bore. Make sure all your valves move freely. It's not uncommon to end up using some lapping compound on the valve/bore.

 

[Synviks]

Appreciate your input!

Personally I think stock hard parts would be perfectly fine for your application. If anything, a billet C2 hub wouldn't be a bad idea. Personally I don't have any major concerns with any shafts. As for stall speed, I think the G or X converter would fit well with a quick spooling 7.3L setup. With as cheap as thrust bearings are I would replace them while I'm in there. If the output bearing and all the other bushings look fine/don't have any wear then don't worry about changing the bushings.

That's good to hear WRT the hard parts. Billet C2 is pretty spendy; unless I could score a used one for cheap I might just go with sleeving it unless that's viewed as a waste of money given the context. This 7.3L build will have a VGT programmed for it (similar to the L5P's turbo, just with a S300 frame) so quick spool will be plentiful, as such the lowest stall converter I can go without compromising reliability would be preferred. Concerning converters I was originally considering the 1600RPM stall A3BLS from DPC (based on the 1.63 ratio TC-222 I think), but, when I asked Goerend about a 1.63 converter they recommended their 1900 RPM stall G converter (based on 1.73 TC-221 I think):

The G has a torque ratio of 1.71 with a K-factor of 93.3, so pretty close. We can do something exactly 1.63 but the blades on those are very thin and can fail, compared to the stronger blades on our G stall.

With regards to the bushings, do those have published tolerances? I have a set of dial bore gauges I can use to make sure they're all good to go.

*****Clutches*****
C1: 16 single sided frictions, take your pick on material as they're all up to the task you want.
C2: 7 friction setup with stock style steels (non-kolene) as the kolene eat up the drum. Take your pick on material.
C3/C4: I also would run a 6 friction setup with LML springs/pistons and kolene steels. I've been using the SCZ195, SCZ196, Alto Tan Parallel G3, and Xcalliber XX clutches. They all hold up very very well for what you want. The most compliant in my opinion is the SCZ196. Personally I think the SCZ195 holds the power the best out of those 4 but for your power level anything realistically will work with good setup.

When you say "compliant" what does that mean in contrast with power-holding ability? The SCZ19X clutches haven't come across my radar, and not finding much on google. There any more info about these/who makes them? What kind of price difference between them and the G3 or GPZs?

*****Hydraulics*****
-Drill the C3 oiler holes regardless of your PTO cover choice, it's free lubrication and I do it on all of them regardless.
-RatioTek PR kit with just the orange spring.
-Grind the lockup valve to remove knockdown
-Drill the line-to-lube hole in the bell housing section of the case to improve cooler flow at low engine speed
-TransGo Jr with Mike's springs

Will stick with the stock covers since they work and swaps are already spendy enough. Is the jig really required to drill the C3 oiler hole? Or will a punch and steady hand be enough?

With regards to "Grind the lockup valve to remove knockdown" the individual who will be providing TCM and tuning expressed this concern about that mod:

but TCC boost valve mods "to remove knockdown" can cause harsh lockup at lower loads that can be difficult to tune super smooth, and seems to have been hard on crankshaft thrust bearings when running more than 300 psi of line pressure

Want to make sure that whatever combination of valve body mods I perform don't result in this kind of outcome.

 

[Bdsankey]

Appreciate your input!

That's good to hear WRT the hard parts. Billet C2 is pretty spendy; unless I could score a used one for cheap I might just go with sleeving it unless that's viewed as a waste of money given the context. This 7.3L build will have a VGT programmed for it (similar to the L5P's turbo, just with a S300 frame) so quick spool will be plentiful, as such the lowest stall converter I can go without compromising reliability would be preferred. Concerning converters I was originally considering the 1600RPM stall A3BLS from DPC (based on the 1.63 ratio TC-222 I think), but, when I asked Goerend about a 1.63 converter they recommended their 1900 RPM stall G converter (based on 1.73 TC-221 I think):

I tend to run Goerend as they are a cooler running unit than DPC by about 10F in my experience. Goerend also has better customer support and is closer to me. DPC does make a solid unit, they just are not my shop's choice.

With regards to the bushings, do those have published tolerances? I have a set of dial bore gauges I can use to make sure they're all good to go.

There probably is a spec somewhere but they're coated, it's very easy to visually see if they are damaged.

When you say "compliant" what does that mean in contrast with power-holding ability? The SCZ19X clutches haven't come across my radar, and not finding much on google. There any more info about these/who makes them? What kind of price difference between them and the G3 or GPZs?

The "SCZ" line of clutches are private label frictions made specially for SunCoast by Raybestos. I buy them cases at a time. What I mean by compliance is they have a great shift quality throughout the life of the clutch. The SCZ196 is long lasting material that is in a sunburst pattern as opposed to the traditional slotted GPZ.

Will stick with the stock covers since they work and swaps are already spendy enough. Is the jig really required to drill the C3 oiler hole? Or will a punch and steady hand be enough?

The jig IMO is absolutely required. It is a complex angle to hold by hand as the bit will come out between two ribs in the case so it has very little room for error.

With regards to "Grind the lockup valve to remove knockdown" the individual who will be providing TCM and tuning expressed this concern about that mod:

"but TCC boost valve mods "to remove knockdown" can cause harsh lockup at lower loads that can be difficult to tune super smooth, and seems to have been hard on crankshaft thrust bearings when running more than 300 psi of line pressure"

Want to make sure that whatever combination of valve body mods I perform don't result in this kind of outcome.

The tuners comments about harsh lockup certainly can be valid. This, in my opinion, comes down to the torque converter selected and lockup strategy more than anything. I do this on all my builds and have had zero issues. For example, a SunCoast 1058 has an extremely harsh lockup and it is due to how inefficient that converter is. At your HP level you do not need to grind the valve, but it does not hurt anything in my opinion to do so.

As for thrust issues, he is correct but the pressure your 01-10 trans will build with just an orange spring is ~280psi.

The only builds I do not grind the valve in are my "OEM+" builds aimed at OEM/tow tune only vehicles.

 

[PureHybrid]

I'm on the opposite side of Brad on the lockup valve, I modify all of them. Then just leave the OEM spring if its not getting power thrown at it. Brad is right though, if you've got a tight converter selected there will be minimal rpm change during lockup and thus no harsh engagement.

 

[Bdsankey]

I'm on the opposite side of Brad on the lockup valve, I modify all of them. Then just leave the OEM spring if its not getting power thrown at it. Brad is right though, if you've got a tight converter selected there will be minimal rpm change during lockup and thus no harsh engagement.

I’ve done it either way, just been what I’ve been doing lately. My OEM+ all get a goerend c which is overkill but can easily handle the power even after pressure reduction.

I was more so saying I think there’s no major downside to grinding every single valve, this has just been my process.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk