Harmonic Damper

[Bdsankey]

I would have to say that if you are basing this comparison all on old data provided by Guy, then it is not a fair comparison, nor is it fact as you present it. Not only are there newer revisions of the Fluidamper products, but the Majority of diesel engines produced throughout history utilize viscous dampening.

When I called SoCal in fall of 2017 I was told that the bias against Fluidampr was due to the failures observed in the high rpm gas engines Guy had built in the past as well as the added weight. I do not know if SoCal has retested them in the recent past.

 

[TheBac]

IMO, nothing wrong with using a new stock type balancer for a stock truck, even for mild racing/pulling. How many of us have never touched theirs over the years?


For anything more than that, buy an SFI rated one. Ive still got my Dayco SFI one sitting in its box out in the garage. They are another option besides Fluidamper and ATI, for what its worth.

 

[hntngkd]

stock damper is 17.5 lbs for the guy who just posted asking about them bringing this thread up (LLY), ati/socal is 16.5 lbs for EXTERNALLY balanced engine. your facts from wagler are based off an INTERNALLY balanced engine where the fluid damper works better. Banks doesnt even sell externally balanced dampers for older trucks but even so, they are not rebranded fluidampr, they are tuned to the harmonics they have seen and built the balancer around it. Fluidampr does NOT dampen near as well as the ATI/Socal damper and Guy has plenty to show for it on an externally balanced engine. They will work better on a broader spectrum of harmonics. Fingers has posted info about this as well and done research. the factory damper does a better job at killing harmonics as well since it was again designed around the engine.

regardless of rotational mass, you still have an additional 6-8lbs sitting out on the leverage point of the crank that is not exactly the strongest to begin with. add in the fact it can not work as well in an external balance environment and you are not helping the crank

also will point out the fluidampr is slip fit while Socals/ATI is closer to a press on. less chance of loosing a pin or needing to add a second pin. The pin snapping is a mute point between a fluidampr and stock damper.


All this info is on here.

The latest Fluidampr is definitely not a slip fit, not on a callies billet internally balanced crank at least. I installed one on my truck last summer. Jeremy actually had to have them revise them if I remember correct because they were so tight to press on. Just an FYI

 

[Chevy1925]

The latest Fluidampr is definitely not a slip fit, not on a callies billet internally balanced crank at least. I installed one on my truck last summer. Jeremy actually had to have them revise them if I remember correct because they were so tight to press on. Just an FYI

the callies is more of press fit for sure, i have an externally balanced billet/narrowed rod journal crank. my stock damper had to be pressed on but it wasnt anymore than the ATI's ive done. This crank may have been before Jeremy had them revise that? not sure as he/wagler is the one i ordered it through.

 

[hntngkd]

the callies is more of press fit for sure, i have an externally balanced billet/narrowed rod journal crank. my stock damper had to be pressed on but it wasnt anymore than the ATI's ive done. This crank may have been before Jeremy had them revise that? not sure as he/wagler is the one i ordered it through.

Sorry, he had Fluidampr open up the press fit a little bit because they were so tight to put on. That was back in May when I spoke to him about it and he had them do it about 9 months prior. I picked one up at UCC as a show deal for a little over 300 bucks and I was concerned because I had heard some horror stories of guys breaking install tools putting them on.

 

[Bdsankey]

Sorry, he had Fluidampr open up the press fit a little bit because they were so tight to put on. That was back in May when I spoke to him about it and he had them do it about 9 months prior. I picked one up at UCC as a show deal for a little over 300 bucks and I was concerned because I had heard some horror stories of guys breaking install tools putting them on.

I know my machine shop had to take a tiny bit out of the fluidampr to get the appropriate interference fit when my motor was built (I do not recall how much they took off of it).

 

[juddski88]

https://youtu.be/OEd6tFbc86o

Minus the elementary theatrics, this was a great explanation of why I'm 100% behind viscous dampening in the Duramax

 

[Bdsankey]

https://youtu.be/OEd6tFbc86o

Minus the elementary theatrics, this was a great explanation of why I'm 100% behind viscous dampening in the Duramax

Agreed. The damping ring on the banks also seems larger than the standard fluidampr for a duramax.

 

[torqued2dmax]

I called ati prior to installing my damper and asked the tec dept why they thought their damper was better and they said it dose not balance better but they studied why they saw so many broken cranks on dd trucks and they found out that the viscous material settles after shut down then must redistribute for a few seconds on each start adding stress to the crank that was cumulative decreasing crank life except in the case of diesel engines that run continuously like over the road trucks ,trains, ships and heavy equipment etc the starting especially in cold temps did the most damage more rapidly .

 

[Bdsankey]

I called ati prior to installing my damper and asked the tec dept why they thought their damper was better and they said it dose not balance better but they studied why they saw so many broken cranks on dd trucks and they found out that the viscous material settles after shut down then must redistribute for a few seconds on each start adding stress to the crank that was cumulative decreasing crank life except in the case of diesel engines that run continuously like over the road trucks ,trains, ships and heavy equipment etc the starting especially in cold temps did the most damage more rapidly .

I’m wondering where they pulled their info since the duramax factory damper is an elastomer damper. I could see their thought behind it but the fluid is usually temperature stable meaning there’s not much viscosity change over the operating temp ranges (ie storage to full hot).

 

[torqued2dmax]

I forgot to mention they were comparing their damper to the other viscous type dampers they had reverse engineered to find out about why the viscous dampers worked so well on so many diesel engines and found they work great on continuously running engines but the starting and stopping is where they found the damage occurred most notably in cold climates .

 

[juddski88]

They are grasping at straws in my opinion. The mass of the viscous media is so relatively small, close to the center of rotation, and fluid! I can see there being some issues with some designs at very low temp or if the assembly was not balanced properly, but like explained in this video, the forces on the crank increase with rpm, so I would not be concerned with relatively low number of actual COLD starts the engine sees compared to the abuse it sees while working thousands of hours

 

[KyleC4]

Ok I have to bring something up and seems like right thread to. I can’t wrap my head around this so hopefully you guys can help me. Why is it that if you have a stock motor and you purchase an aftermarket damper, ie fluidampr, why do you buy one for an externally balanced crank? I thought for years now GM has only produced internally balanced. Cause all the dampers, flywheels, and flex-plates I’ve installed I’ve never ran across having to transfer any added weight from a removed part. That made me believe everything is now neutral balanced that is not internal to the motor. And this is why gm now calls their stuff “Dampeners” and not “Balancers”..... please help me understand guys. I’m having a serious retard moment here

 

[Bdsankey]

They are grasping at straws in my opinion. The mass of the viscous media is so relatively small, close to the center of rotation, and fluid! I can see there being some issues with some designs at very low temp or if the assembly was not balanced properly, but like explained in this video, the forces on the crank increase with rpm, so I would not be concerned with relatively low number of actual COLD starts the engine sees compared to the abuse it sees while working thousands of hours

I agree. It isn't like the damping ring has to move far to self-center.

Ok I have to bring something up and seems like right thread to. I can’t wrap my head around this so hopefully you guys can help me. Why is it that if you have a stock motor and you purchase an aftermarket damper, ie fluidampr, why do you buy one for an externally balanced crank? I thought for years now GM has only produced internally balanced. Cause all the dampers, flywheels, and flex-plates I’ve installed I’ve never ran across having to transfer any added weight from a removed part. That made me believe everything is now neutral balanced that is not internal to the motor. And this is why gm now calls their stuff “Dampeners” and not “Balancers”..... please help me understand guys. I’m having a serious retard moment here

The Duramax engines are not internally balanced as produced by GM. The flexplate and harmonic balancer/damper have a counterweight designed into them that is non-removable. On today's engines there isn't ever much swapping of weight, the components are already designed to have that counterweight on them in the appropriate spot to take user error out of anything as opposed to the old school big blocks etc. I cannot comment on LS stuff as I haven't jumped into it.

 

[KyleC4]

Got it. So, the Duramax engine balancer already has a counterweight design into it to offset the counterweights inside on the crank? Sorry, just wanting to make sure I fully got this locked in the noggin’. I should’ve mentioned that the parts I was talking about replacing too are mostly from newer LS, and LT stuff and there are no counterweights. I hardly get to play around with diesels if it’s not my own or friends. And I’m looking at getting a new balancer for my truck as well so more so why I’m trying to be informed. Thanks guys

 

[ikeG]

Got it. So, the Duramax engine balancer already has a counterweight design into it to offset the counterweights inside on the crank? Sorry, just wanting to make sure I fully got this locked in the noggin’. I should’ve mentioned that the parts I was talking about replacing too are mostly from newer LS, and LT stuff and there are no counterweights. I hardly get to play around with diesels if it’s not my own or friends. And I’m looking at getting a new balancer for my truck as well so more so why I’m trying to be informed. Thanks guys

See attached photo. Stock lml dampener, you can see the counterweight is cast in on the bottom side

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[Pure Diesel]

Do the factory damper need to be replaced? Do they go bad over time? Reason I ask is, I have a vibration more like a buzzing feeling that I get through the brake pedal and the accelerator pedal. This buzzing is worse when I first fire the truck up and gets less when its warmed up. Over the years this has gotten worse and worse and it irritates the crap out of my left foot(I left brake). I've checked that nothing is rubbing up against the master cylinder or the hydro boost. The motor mounts are good and am at a loss here. Was wondering if the damper could cause this being old or worn out.

 

[Chevy1925]

You should be feeling a much harder slower vibration from a bad balancer than a buzzing. I’d be more inclined to say that hydroboost or pump related.

 

[Pure Diesel]

Thanks James.:thumb: