hard starts

[DAVe3283]

The balance rates are supposed to be checked warm because lots of other issues can show up as large balance rates at cold temps. Unplug one glow plug, and that cylinder will have a large positive balance as the ECU tries to get power out of a dead cylinder on cold start. Nothing wrong with the injector, but it looks that way.

Now bad injectors will also have bad balance rates when cold, but it is harder to blame them when it could be so many other things.

You say the smoke cleans up when the engine is warm. How are the balance rates when it is at temp, both in park and drive, all accessories off?

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[danzick]

after driving it for around 15 minutes, I came to a stop and the 2 giving me issues were at 4 and 12, but I watched them come back down to close to zero within 30 seconds or so. After that, they were all within 2. Something I have noticed, this starting issue presents its self a lot more when the truck sits awhile.

 

[Yngdmax92]

after driving it for around 15 minutes, I came to a stop and the 2 giving me issues were at 4 and 12, but I watched them come back down to close to zero within 30 seconds or so. After that, they were all within 2. Something I have noticed, this starting issue presents its self a lot more when the truck sits awhile.

Disable injectors/fuel. Turn over to deplete any fuel laying around and to not build pressure in rail. Then fire it. I feel like that will tell you if you have a leaky injector into your cylinder

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[danzick]

thanks, I will try that. how do I turn over to deplete fuel without starting? I started it this morning and it hardly smoked and the balance rates look within spec even cold. I really think this is a leaking injector that needs to sit a few days to show itself. I took a video, I will upload it today sometime.

and I didn't mean to slam LDS. I was a little fired up yesterday when determining this with them having such low miles. I really don't think I got dirt In the lines I was very very careful to be clean when I installed them.

 

[rcr1978]

If it happened right after you installed the injectors you probably got dirt in the lines or injectors. I promise you it isn’t the fault of LDS. Either you botched the injector install, or your motor has more serious issues.


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I second the install and not to be hard on you but LB7 injectors are touchy, everything has to be surgical clean, rails/lines cleaned out preferably sonic cleaned, truck inside with no wind blowing dirt & shit around with doors open, guys kicking floor dry and shit around these are things that will get you. You can’t be leaving ports uncovered ect, dust/mud under the hood ect get nocked loose. The tip design on the LB7 injectors does not take much to mess them up.

 

[DAVe3283]

thanks, I will try that. how do I turn over to deplete fuel without starting? I started it this morning and it hardly smoked and the balance rates look within spec even cold. I really think this is a leaking injector that needs to sit a few days to show itself. I took a video, I will upload it today sometime.

and I didn't mean to slam LDS. I was a little fired up yesterday when determining this with them having such low miles. I really don't think I got dirt In the lines I was very very careful to be clean when I installed them.

I think you'd have to turn it over by hand to avoid building rail pressure.

I don't think an injector will be leaking after a few days. If you watch rail pressure, it bleeds off almost immediately (a few seconds).

If an injector consistently leaks, the easiest way to catch that is by pulling the glow plugs. Get the engine up to temp, then stop and crack all the glow plugs loose (easiest when things are hot). Let the truck sit a couple days with the glow plugs finger tight. Now go out and pull the FICM fuse so it won't fire the injectors, pull the glow plugs out and hold/position some paper towels by both banks. Crank the engine over and see if any moisture comes out of any cylinder.

It is kind of a pain in the ass, but it will tell you for sure if something is leaking into the cylinder.

 

[danzick]

I second the install and not to be hard on you but LB7 injectors are touchy, everything has to be surgical clean, rails/lines cleaned out preferably sonic cleaned, truck inside with no wind blowing dirt & shit around with doors open, guys kicking floor dry and shit around these are things that will get you. You can’t be leaving ports uncovered ect, dust/mud under the hood ect get nocked loose. The tip design on the LB7 injectors does not take much to mess them up.

shoot don't worry about me! I was careful to the point where if I did it again, I wouldn't know how to be any more careful. I was the only one in there and it was a spotless clean shop and the ports were not left open. I do admit I didn't completely remove the rails and have them cleaned. wonder If I should do that next time? anyway, I talked to Brent today. He pretty much said its too hard to tell without bench testing them, but he was sort of thinking it could be a leaking nozzle. According to him, its really hard on my injectors to let the truck sit as much as I have. I'm in the middle of building my new shop, so I don't have time to do any extensive testing. Ive been wanting to upgrade to some 60 overs anyways, He said the sac style 65's are a much better nozzle and my injector bodies are probably fine. I will probably pull them out and send them off to be tested. Do some larger nozzles and head studs while its apart.

 

[Robby Avery]

Fyi since you'll be in there due to age and it being an 04 I would go through and replace all the fuel lines clean the rails properly replace the rubber hoses and any hard lines you feel are prone to contamination so as to give the new injectors a fresh clean supply of fuel I would even replace feed and return lines and pipes and even a Lbz cp3 or a fleece cp3k being your going 60 or 65 over jmho

 

[danzick]

I think my 80k mile cp3 will be plenty healthy in the valley with a lbz on top of it later down the road. due to a big up coming mortgage, I am on a bit of a budget, so I have to take relatively small steps.

Truck ran great all day today. Balance rates looked really good and no smoke or raw fuel smell. I''m going to let it sit for a week and start it again. I'll be sure to get a video this time around.

 

[2004LB7]

If you stick with the same LB7 CP3 you could always mod the regulator for more flow and if you still are pulling the fuel pressure down then just limit the PW until you get a chance to upgrade the pump

As for the rails, I've had luck blowing compressed air threw the ports. Watch out for the fuel spray

The injector lines, I soak them in lime away / CLR for a short bit. Wire brush the sealing surface. Wash them good and clean and dry them in the oven. Haven't had any issues or leaks [yet]

 

[ikeG]

Does it crank a long time before starting? If so, watch rail pressure while cranking. I know LDS is a great company, but it isn't impossible for any good shop to have a bad injector sent out ever.

I think it sounds like bent rods could be a possibility. Compression check will tell the tale.

 

[stroke250]

Does it crank a long time before starting? If so, watch rail pressure while cranking. I know LDS is a great company, but it isn't impossible for any good shop to have a bad injector sent out ever.

I think it sounds like bent rods could be a possibility. Compression check will tell the tale.

Agreed on the compression check.

Bent rods could very well be a possibility. My buddy had a similar issue and compression was low on his(I will note it was not drastically low/not much difference between cylinders). With everything else checking out on his, we pulled the motor and found a couple bent rods.

 

[danzick]

I thought bent rods as being a possibility, but I don't know how letting it sit would affect that? also, Its been acting like this since the injector install just not nearly as severe. AT the time all I had was some stock trans safe tuning from Kory. And I really haven't been beating on it much. No sled pulling or 1/4 mile runs or anything like that.

 

[danzick]

Does it crank a long time before starting? If so, watch rail pressure while cranking. I know LDS is a great company, but it isn't impossible for any good shop to have a bad injector sent out ever.

I think it sounds like bent rods could be a possibility. Compression check will tell the tale.

Doesn't crank any longer that normal to start.

 

[TheBac]

Im just kind of curious why you havent done any actual diagnosing other than to check balance rates?

 

[danzick]

ive just been so busy building my own house/shop that I started in November there isn't really any time to do any diagnostics for me.

 

[Been everywhere]

bringing this back up. I think this is from bad injectors. Ever since I put some garbage injectors from LDS in this thing a few years back it has never started right. I fired it up tonight after it has sat for 2 weeks. smoked like crazy and had a bad miss/knock. I started noticing it wasn't going away. One balance rate is at 15, and another one was at 5. it smoked like crazy driving until it hit around 140 on the ECT. Balance rates are ok when its at operating temp. I think these two injectors have been leaking into the cylinders since I installed them. This would explain why it always blows a ton of smoke at start up.

I used Merchant Automotive’s injectors when I replaced them in my crew cab last year and they’re great. Loved their deluxe install kit. I used their upgraded stock injectors.

 

[torqued2dmax]

There have been a few cases on this site in the last few years that people have chimed in with , where they have said , why do I have 2 or 3 Qts extra oil on dip stick ? In those cases that I remember , with the help from people on this site , it was determined that a stuck injector ball that got dirt or rust from HP lines was the cause and the others were leaking return lines . Are you making any oil ?

 

[2004LB7]

There have been a few cases on this site in the last few years that people have chimed in with , where they have said , why do I have 2 or 3 Qts extra oil on dip stick ? In those cases that I remember , with the help from people on this site , it was determined that a stuck injector ball that got dirt or rust from HP lines was the cause and the others were leaking return lines . Are you making any oil ?

Stuck, bad, dirty or otherwise injector ball will cause high return rates but rarely if ever is associated with causing the fuel to get into the oil.

Cracked injector bodies or loose return lines on the injectors or even a seeping high pressure line at the injector could leak fuel into the oil. And bad seal on the CP3

Leaking nozzles could also wash down the cylinder wall and get into the oil if bad enough

 

[danzick]

Sorry, been busy. I'm still going to upload that video. Monday morning marks a week since the last time it ran. I'll start it again then and take a video for comparison. And no, I am not making oil.