gtx4202 or similar/stock twins??

country lbz

New member
Feb 28, 2013
60
0
0
Indiana
There are a lot of nice twin kits on the market that utilize the stock turbo. Most using bw s475 or s480 chargers. My question is, could I get a kit fabbed from a place like hsp diesel and use a gtx series turbo? Has anyone heard of/done this? If so which gtx would suit me best? 1.25ar t6, 1.44 ar t6? Would a 4202 be a large enough charger?
 

03spoolindmax

New member
Nov 9, 2011
674
0
0
36
Mi
Joey from hsp can build you anything you want. Don't be afraid to give him a call. All T6 flanges are the same and I believe the outlet out of a gtx will be the same as a bw turbo. As far as the ar sizes I don't see why a 1.25 wouldn't work well over a stock turbo. IMO a 1.44 ar might be to big for a stock application and take longer to spool but I could be wrong. You'll just need to tap into a coolant line to feed the turbo but it shouldn't be hard. If you get a kit set up for it then it should come with everything you need.
 

Magnus

New member
Jun 22, 2013
144
0
0
You can but why bother? The Garrett's essentially have turbines sized for gas performance, where a cetane molecule in a diesel combusts and generates much more exhaust volume. At the end of the day the Borg setups come with an 87 or even 96mm turbine setup which is much more ideally suited to a non-wastegated atmospheric charger on a diesel and all for under $1k for an off the shelf S475.

If everyone is doing S475 over stock, there's a reason.
 

malibu795

misspeelleerr
Apr 28, 2007
8,240
550
113
42
in the buckeye state
You can but why bother? The Garrett's essentially have turbines sized for gas performance, where a cetane molecule in a diesel combusts and generates much more exhaust volume. At the end of the day the Borg setups come with an 87 or even 96mm turbine setup which is much more ideally suited to a non-wastegated atmospheric charger on a diesel and all for under $1k for an off the shelf S475.

If everyone is doing S475 over stock, there's a reason.

475 is about 1/2 of a GT4202

FWIW MPI runs 4202/stocker
 

Yellow Jacket

WannaBe Sled Puller
Feb 11, 2009
917
0
16
Waterloo, IA
I'm also curious about why the GTX 11 blade compressor in twins, or if any others on the site have experience or results from 11 blade type compressors??

I thought the 11 blade compressor wheels had less transient response and moved less air at low shaft speeds and during mid-range but "shined" in the high pressure ratios that you wouldn't normally see from an atmosphere turbo in a compounded configuration.... Although my statements and thoughts are not fact, just what I was told...
 

TeaBagger2006

Im a Garrett Nut Swinger
May 11, 2008
3,123
15
38
Bis ND
just run the gtx by itself!.....good tuning and the appropriate fuel mods will have you jizzing your pants, no need for compounds........ in my opinion
 

country lbz

New member
Feb 28, 2013
60
0
0
Indiana
I thought real hard about running a 4202 as a single but as suggested above, I'm afraid of the outcome when it becomes time to hook up to the gooseneck.. looks like I will probably just go with a kit from hsp and run a 475. I may upgrade to the 480. In the future someday (may be several years from now) I want to run a setup much similar to andrew murdocks wich I believe is 4202 over 5517.
 

Magnus

New member
Jun 22, 2013
144
0
0
Heating up the oil and leaching a significant amount of oil flow if you're running two Borgs as twins.

As far as I'm aware the MPI kits were masterpower GT45s, which aren't really the same as a GTX like you're considering but I haven't been in the game long enough to see an original kit first hand.

As far as compressor flow matching a GT4202R almost perfectly matches a GT3788 which is closest to our stock AVNT Garrett. The issue lies in the fact that the GT42 turbine is small by diesel standards which reduces peak power potential and overall exhaust energy usage. You end up losing a bit off the top end and potentially losing some mileage at a cruise or while towing, and likely having to wastegate to balance response and top end flow. Overall it makes the Borg more attractive as an atmosphere over stock.

As was mentioned the GTX series in particular has a redesigned 11 blade milled compressor wheel which is easiest explained in layman's terms as reducing aerodynamic slip with the air at high shaft speeds. The reduced slip allows the wheel to keep effective laminar compressive flow higher into the boost range and increases peak flow at the limit of the chargers flow map, but it does nothing or even decreases performance where it would operate as an atmosphere.

Basically if you insisted on a Garrett you'd want a GT 45 or GT 47 turbine with a 4202 compressor with a custom billet wheel optimized for low pressure performance... Just get an S475 or run a GT4202 single where the smaller turbine allows a quicker spool and decent part throttle drive ability, and accept that you'll have to rev it up and run a higher stall converter to tow.
 

JoshH

Daggum farm truck
Staff member
Vendor/Sponsor
Feb 14, 2007
13,714
776
113
Texas!!!
The old MPI kits used Garrett GT4202 journal bearing turbos with external waste gates, and they worked very well.
 

Magnus

New member
Jun 22, 2013
144
0
0
Oh thanks good to know. So that's what Rob took to DPC? I'm not saying they can't be made to work. With the right tubine housing and a gate the smaller turbine spools faster and still is decent up top, but everyone switched to the S475 because there's no other turbo as ideally flow matched to the stock setup on both intake and exhaust side PLUS it's dirt cheap and tough to damage.