Allison 5sp: Full Transgo?

[Bdsankey]

I am looking at building my 5spd allison in my daily driver as well as refreshing the trans in my built motor truck. My daily driver LB7 is bone stock with 270k. My built motor truck is running a full billet build and has a full transgo kit (C2 mods).


Is it useful to use a full transgo in a build these days or is the JR version for the trim valves all that is needed (with Mike's springs of course)? Pump and shift valve springs will be taken care of with a Ratiotek kit unless better is available. The plan is to go with full Alto G3s in all packs with a Goerend converter, Goerend and Limitless C3 oilers (already have a spare set of PTO plates), ratiotek pump and shift springs, Sonnax C1 valve, and transgo JR.

 

[Mike L.]

Don't use full Transgo kit.

 

[Bdsankey]

Don't use full Transgo kit.

Thank you Mike. I am assuming you would recommend that I take all the parts out of my billet trans then? I did not build it but I am going to correct it to what it should be.

 

[Bdsankey]

Mike, do you mind if I give you a call this afternoon to ask why? More curious as to why they aren't useful/benefits to not using it, not doubting anyone just so I know why not to use it.

Looks like all I would have to replace are the C2 piston (29539653), C2 return spring assy (29536104), and the C1 return spring assy (29536198).

 

[PureHybrid]

The full transgo kit was meant to be run with stock clutches, so when the c2 pack becomes more aggressive, it will cause a bind up on the 3-4 shift. The 5spd drums use a balance piston in the c2 to help cushion this shift, but the transgo kit has you modify it to "disable" the pistons affect.

 

[Bdsankey]

The full transgo kit was meant to be run with stock clutches, so when the c2 pack becomes more aggressive, it will cause a bind up on the 3-4 shift. The 5spd drums use a balance piston in the c2 to help cushion this shift, but the transgo kit has you modify it to "disable" the pistons affect.

This would likely explain why a friend of mine who put his together without removing his full transgo kit has a weird downshift every once in awhile with his build (Alto G3). I greatly appreciate the response!

 

[SickLL7Crenshaw]

This would likely explain why a friend of mine who put his together without removing his full transgo kit has a weird downshift every once in awhile with his build (Alto G3). I greatly appreciate the response!

Full trans go or not, running G3’s in the C2, C3, C4 will always have inconsistent harsh/weird downshifts every once in awhile. The way the friction material and design of the G3 tend to stick for a split sec to the steels once released.

But yes I would remove the full transgo in your trans for sure, you need C2 modulation to help hard parts in the 3-4 shift. Also I don’t recommend the G3 in the C1s.

 

[Bdsankey]

Full trans go or not, running G3’s in the C2, C3, C4 will always have inconsistent harsh/weird downshifts every once in awhile. The way the friction material and design of the G3 tend to stick for a split sec to the steels once released.

But yes I would remove the full transgo in your trans for sure, you need C2 modulation to help hard parts in the 3-4 shift. Also I don’t recommend the G3 in the C1s.

Why do you not recommend G3 in the C1s? Thank you for the information about C2/C3/C4. Also wondering if it may be worthwhile to wait a few months for the G4 release since Alto said they should have them out Q1 2020.

 

[Evan@InglewoodTrans]

Why do you not recommend G3 in the C1s? Thank you for the information about C2/C3/C4. Also wondering if it may be worthwhile to wait a few months for the G4 release since Alto said they should have them out Q1 2020.

Because they don’t last in C1 making any sort of power. G3 material is aggressive and does a number on steels and they kill themselves in C1. The only problem clutch is C3 and G4’s aren’t going to solve all the issues going on in C3 I can 110% guarantee you that it’s so much more then the clutch.

 

[Bdsankey]

Because they don’t last in C1 making any sort of power. G3 material is aggressive and does a number on steels and they kill themselves in C1. The only problem clutch is C3 and G4’s aren’t going to solve all the issues going on in C3 I can 110% guarantee you that it’s so much more then the clutch.

What do you recommend in the C3/C4 then, Suncoast style waffle weave or is it a "tear down and replace" as often as things start to flare? Would carbonites or GPZ be a better choice in C1?

 

[Ne-max]

Hes gonna recommend the kit that he sells. Witch is understandable

What kinda power are you after with this build?
If under 600 you'll be fine with g3s for c2s-c4s.

 

[Evan@InglewoodTrans]

Hes gonna recommend the kit that he sells. Witch is understandable

What kinda power are you after with this build?
If under 600 you'll be fine with g3s for c2s-c4s.

Wrong and what works works so...I’m going to say for now G3 will net longest run time and passes at this time in 1200+hp applications. Even when they fail they will get you through an event. Carbonites are ok also until they shed. The thing I see a lot is people who think they are in the know who don’t realize getting a hand full of passes even fast ones and running a number once or twice with poor shift quality isn’t doing anything special and any kit with billet parts out there will net you that. Two shims a regulator spring/drilling some holes in the c1 hub/no knock down some oiling covers and billet parts isn’t a COMP build it’s some stuff you put in a transmission without a real understanding. G3’s are fine at any power level in any clutch aside from in C1. All that said there will be a lot new options separate from what everyone’s used to coming in the future. You’ll always have different opinions “which” is normal but I work off facts learned immense from amounts of testing and time.

 

[Bdsankey]

Hes gonna recommend the kit that he sells. Witch is understandable

What kinda power are you after with this build?
If under 600 you'll be fine with g3s for c2s-c4s.

That's all I'm looking for out of my LB7, its S475 over stock with stock injectors. From this thread it seems like GPZ or Carbonites are good in the C1, GPZ in the C2, and G3 in C3/C4.

Wrong and what works works so...I’m going to say for now G3 will net longest run time and passes at this time in 1200+hp applications. Even when they fail they will get you through an event. Carbonites are ok also until they shed. The thing I see a lot is people who think they are in the know who don’t realize getting a hand full of passes even fast ones and running a number once or twice with poor shift quality isn’t doing anything special and any kit with billet parts out there will net you that. Two shims a regulator spring/drilling some holes in the c1 hub/no knock down some oiling covers and billet parts isn’t a COMP build it’s some stuff you put in a transmission without a real understanding. G3’s are fine at any power level in any clutch aside from in C1. All that said there will be a lot new options separate from what everyone’s used to coming in the future. You’ll always have different opinions “which” is normal but I work off facts learned immense from amounts of testing and time.

Thank you Evan. I bought this build from a local builder who is no longer in business (not due to his builds) had done a great job on my stock shaft build years ago. From my understanding, and what he has said, he uses a full transgo kit with a ratiotek and single shim. I would like to get to the point of understanding what each little thing does but it is not easy to get to that point when most of the time transmission setup or combination questions are met with crickets (which is understandable to protect their intellectual property/businesses). I may not want to make this a full time business but I am darn hungry for knowledge and to know why something is done. I've always made it a point to make an educated decision but when it comes to transmissions I am pretty green (hence these questions).


Before failure in my LLY the trans shifted like trash at WOT on the 3-4 and 4-5 shifts when the converter is locked. I am suspecting he used a transgo boost lockup valve or potentially did nothing to the valve as it shifts substantially better/cleaner unlocked. I've frankly been too busy to tear it apart yet which will change shortly.

 

[Evan@InglewoodTrans]

You never want to do the full the transgo. I enjoy helping people learn and make it a point to help my customers and dealers learn all they can as I want the quality of what they are doing to be as high as possible. It’s the people I don’t hear from who have issues. I don’t expect people to know so I encourage questions. I’m in the process now of hands on teaching some more dealers and have traveled all over the past years teaching shops so they are qualified and profitable at what they are doing.

 

[Ne-max]

G3s didnt last 6 passes from a trans you helped build.

 

[Bdsankey]

You never want to do the full the transgo. I enjoy helping people learn and make it a point to help my customers and dealers learn all they can as I want the quality of what they are doing to be as high as possible. It’s the people I don’t hear from who have issues. I don’t expect people to know so I encourage questions. I’m in the process now of hands on teaching some more dealers and have traveled all over the past years teaching shops so they are qualified and profitable at what they are doing.

To be clear, I wasn't attempting to make any type of jab at anyone, it was more so a statement that transmission combinations seem to be tribal knowledge with a few experienced chiefs and a few experienced Indians.

After it was explained what the full kit does vs the JR it makes complete sense why not to use it.

G3s didnt last 6 passes from a trans you helped build.

Let's keep this civil, this post was intended to be an informational and not a dick measuring contest.

 

[Evan@InglewoodTrans]

G3s didnt last 6 passes from a trans you helped build.

So many variables can make even a perfect trans fail. Then the next one will last with even the same parts. It’s an allison. Everyone including yourself sticking with the Allison in fast trucks will have options we never thought possible for control and parts and you won’t even have to get them from me.

 

[Bdsankey]

So many variables can make even a perfect trans fail. Then the next one will last with even the same parts. It’s an allison. Everyone including yourself sticking with the Allison in fast trucks will have options we never thought possible for control and parts and you won’t even have to get them from me.

When are these parts you speak of becoming available? What kind of parts?

 

[Evan@InglewoodTrans]

When are these parts you speak of becoming available? What kind of parts?

It will be a bit but worth the wait is all I can say.

 

[Bdsankey]

It will be a bit but worth the wait is all I can say.

Are you thinking before this up coming season? If so, I obviously am not using my truck now (my built motor truck that could benefit from these parts) and can easily afford to wait.

I'd imagine damn near any clutch, when setup with the proper clutch clearance/vb/pump mods, will hold 500-600hp and not think twice about it.