Fleece 63mm/68mm or DT 64mm?

[zakkb787]

Guys, yes I’m new to posting on here but not new to hot rodding, fabricating, materials science, or forums.

Now, to clarify: 1. All the big LLY Achilles heels have been fixed. No EGR, S&B elbow, intake, Rob’s trans safe tunes, coolant flush, thermostat swap to lower ones, Mike’s trans cooler, PCV delete, and so on.

2. Yes, I can build the trans. Yes, I understand at the scientific level why head gaskets warp/sheer or why studs perform better than bolts mechanically. Just because I haven’t done an Allison before doesn’t mean jack. I’ve done my research, I’ve talked at length with Mike, I have professional certified Allison techs from the Army that will help for beer, and a good friend with a bachelors in automotive technology.

However, we have strayed from the path. The original question was, Fleece 63, DT 64, or another good, mild turbo that’s gonna give me a solid edge over the stocker to better handle some hot tunes once the trans is built. I am not aiming for twins, at least not for 5-10 years when I do a whole engine with all the goodies. If the engine dies before then, I’m just patching until I get my SoCal stage 2-spec engine and then twins. Or triples. Or quadruples if that’s a thing then. Just like a Bugatti.


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It's really all depending on what you're looking for. Personally, the only reason I'm looking at a 63.5 for my lb7 is simplicity from LDS cover and wheel combo and price. If you're looking at a quick spooling turbo, I think any of those will do. Personally I'd go a bit bigger for some more fun. I don't see the point of paying that much for a turbo that's not that much bigger than stock. I think an s467.7 or maybe a bit bigger would be a better option. Even an s472. With the right converter it'll drive great. Plus, easier to keep your bottom end in tact. Just my .02. Or even one of danvilles modded vgt turbos. Go big or go home :thumb:

Edit: so I just went back and re read everything. I didn't see the 68mm option to begin with. That's got my vote. Get the right converter and it'll spool great

 

[jmdorris]

It's really all depending on what you're looking for. Personally, the only reason I'm looking at a 63.5 for my lb7 is simplicity from LDS cover and wheel combo and price. If you're looking at a quick spooling turbo, I think any of those will do. Personally I'd go a bit bigger for some more fun. I don't see the point of paying that much for a turbo that's not that much bigger than stock. I think an s467.7 or maybe a bit bigger would be a better option. Even an s472. With the right converter it'll drive great. Plus, easier to keep your bottom end in tact. Just my .02. Or even one of danvilles modded vgt turbos. Go big or go home :thumb:

Edit: so I just went back and re read everything. I didn't see the 68mm option to begin with. That's got my vote. Get the right converter and it'll spool great

Great, thanks. They claim the 68 “spools faster than stock” but it’s hard to believe even a VGT that’s 5mm larger would spool as quick. I mean, I don’t know how others do, but mine comes online pretty good around 1600 if I ask it to.

I’m planning a Goerend R converter. Goerend answered my phone calls and talked. Suncoast did not. Ever. And I tried several times.


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[zakkb787]

You need to talk to Evan at limitless diesel. He can set you up with whatever you need. Was talking to a guy here to other day with a stock fuel truck running an s475. Watched his videos and it spools nicely.

 

[jmdorris]

You need to talk to Evan at limitless diesel. He can set you up with whatever you need. Was talking to a guy here to other day with a stock fuel truck running an s475. Watched his videos and it spools nicely.

Thanks. I’d like to stay in the VGT corner for now though. Yes they’re a tad more complicated but such cool engineering.

I’ve talked to Evan briefly and asked about his kit. I don’t doubt it’s an amazing one, but it’s $3600 and there are billet converter kits with GPZ or Carbonite clutches for a thousand less and they come with bearings, seals, and Mike’s springs. I’m not trying to cut corners, $1000 is $1000. I don’t plan on going to 1000hp ever. It’s just not useful to me. I’ll stay around 800hp tops. So having the ULTIMATE kit isn’t vital. Just wanna build something to hold 200-400hp more than I’ll make. If there’s some finer points I missed, I’d say it’ll still do fine with it being underpowered for its rating. That’s how I’m trying to build. Overbuilt for what I’m doing. Keep breakdowns to a minimum.


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[zakkb787]

Thanks. I’d like to stay in the VGT corner for now though. Yes they’re a tad more complicated but such cool engineering.

I’ve talked to Evan briefly and asked about his kit. I don’t doubt it’s an amazing one, but it’s $3600 and there are billet converter kits with GPZ or Carbonite clutches for a thousand less and they come with bearings, seals, and Mike’s springs. I’m not trying to cut corners, $1000 is $1000. I don’t plan on going to 1000hp ever. It’s just not useful to me. I’ll stay around 800hp tops. So having the ULTIMATE kit isn’t vital. Just wanna build something to hold 200-400hp more than I’ll make. If there’s some finer points I missed, I’d say it’ll still do fine with it being underpowered for its rating. That’s how I’m trying to build. Overbuilt for what I’m doing. Keep breakdowns to a minimum.


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That's what I did. I've got a stage 5 trans and a stock turbo so I should be good haha. I didn't mean buy his kit I meant talk to him about converter choice and what would work good. And talk to Danville performance about his modded vgt turbos. So many options out there

 

[jmdorris]

If I go the S47# route, I’ll probably do the Wagler street intake and accompanying parts. They just look too damn cool and delete the annoying Y-bridge that’s a pain to change.


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[WVRigrat05]

Oh you didn't do away with all the LLY hg killing parts. Let me borrow it for the day. Drive pressure and heat kills LLY hg's, I blew mine on a 40hp bully dog tune at 40k miles. Some get lucky, like my buddy, had a Ppe stacked with a banks for almost 100k and some don't have them tuned a week before they go, just be ready for it.

 

[jmdorris]

That's what I did. I've got a stage 5 trans and a stock turbo so I should be good haha. I didn't mean buy his kit I meant talk to him about converter choice and what would work good. And talk to Danville performance about his modded vgt turbos. So many options out there

I know he’s super knowledgeable. I may hit him up. I just feel bad taking a guy’s time if I’m not planning to buy his kit. The site says he’s still the sole builder of his trans, so he’s a busy man. And I respect that.


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[PureHybrid]

Cyl. pressure can blow hg's with stock levels of boost of the tuning is that far North with timing etc. It isnt always boost, but it certainly doesnt help. Plus, too many times, I believe guys are running wayy more boost than they need for X amount of fuel.

Unless you're running 40°+ of timing, they're not going to blow. And even then it's doubtful.

And an abundance of air is a good thing.

 

[IOWA LLY]

I have a question for all the experts on here......

If high drive pressure and high timing kill head gaskets, then why have I repaired more 100% bone stock LB7s, LLYs, LBZs, and LMMs with blown head gaskets then modified ones???

I've repaired a ton of blown Headgaskets in completely stock trucks. Some as low mileage as 56,000 miles.....

And I've personally seen LLYs (the "supposed" worst offender) that are turned up still going strong at over 250,000 miles.


Now just to make it clear. I am NOT SAYING that excessively high drive pressure or timing is ok! Just asking if that is what causes them to fail, why do so many stock trucks fail?


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[IOWA LLY]

Thanks. I’d like to stay in the VGT corner for now though. Yes they’re a tad more complicated but such cool engineering.

I’ve talked to Evan briefly and asked about his kit. I don’t doubt it’s an amazing one, but it’s $3600 and there are billet converter kits with GPZ or Carbonite clutches for a thousand less and they come with bearings, seals, and Mike’s springs. I’m not trying to cut corners, $1000 is $1000. I don’t plan on going to 1000hp ever. It’s just not useful to me. I’ll stay around 800hp tops. So having the ULTIMATE kit isn’t vital. Just wanna build something to hold 200-400hp more than I’ll make. If there’s some finer points I missed, I’d say it’ll still do fine with it being underpowered for its rating. That’s how I’m trying to build. Overbuilt for what I’m doing. Keep breakdowns to a minimum.


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Your not willing to spend $3600 for a proven transmission kit that comes with tech support on your first ever Allison build? And yet you claim you don't care if it blows up.... Which means you pay at LEAST twice.... Yeah that makes sense.

Here's my advice...

Talk to Mark at Danville about your turbo needs. Be honest with him about what your goals and wants are. Then buy what he recommends!

Use air to gain horsepower first, fuel second. Air is a much MUCH safer way to gain power in my opinion.

Buy your transmission kit from Mike or Evan. Tell them what turbo you just ordered from Mark at Danville and let them choose the right converter for your build.

Just because you want to do the work yourself doesn't mean you have to reinvent the wheel here. Take the advice from the people that already know. You can still feel good about piecing it all together and assembling everything on your truck yourself. But don't go out of your way to "swim against the current" just so you can say you did.


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[WVRigrat05]

I have a question for all the experts on here......

If high drive pressure and high timing kill head gaskets, then why have I repaired more 100% bone stock LB7s, LLYs, LBZs, and LMMs with blown head gaskets then modified ones???

I've repaired a ton of blown Headgaskets in completely stock trucks. Some as low mileage as 56,000 miles.....

And I've personally seen LLYs (the "supposed" worst offender) that are turned up still going strong at over 250,000 miles.


Now just to make it clear. I am NOT SAYING that excessively high drive pressure or timing is ok! Just asking if that is what causes them to fail, why do so many stock trucks fail?


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Never said it was a sure thing, just to be ready, I've seen them go both ways, my friend Glenn's 04.5 LLY had a built trans and stacked chips and had stock intake, mouthpiece and only a 4" exhaust and was ran harder than mine for the 100k he had it, he sold it with 190k and still had everything stock on top end.

Most of them I've seen go stock or close to stock was towing too much or pulling hills too hard, that's how my friends 5 duramax hot shot trucks all lost HG's, too much weight and low paid drivers that kept them to the floor.

 

[torqued2dmax]

Good advice does not make for nearly as much fun reading , now knock it off ! LOL

 

[TheBac]

Your not willing to spend $3600 for a proven transmission kit that comes with tech support on your first ever Allison build? And yet you claim you don't care if it blows up.... Which means you pay at LEAST twice.... Yeah that makes sense.

Here's my advice...

Talk to Mark at Danville about your turbo needs. Be honest with him about what your goals and wants are. Then buy what he recommends!

Use air to gain horsepower first, fuel second. Air is a much MUCH safer way to gain power in my opinion.

Buy your transmission kit from Mike or Evan. Tell them what turbo you just ordered from Mark at Danville and let them choose the right converter for your build.

Just because you want to do the work yourself means you have to reinvent the wheel here. Take the advice from the people that already know. You can still feel good about piecing it all together and assembling everything on your truck yourself. But don't go out of your way to "swim against the current" just so you can say you did.

And that's that.

 

[jmdorris]

Your not willing to spend $3600 for a proven transmission kit that comes with tech support on your first ever Allison build? And yet you claim you don't care if it blows up.... Which means you pay at LEAST twice.... Yeah that makes sense.

Here's my advice...

Talk to Mark at Danville about your turbo needs. Be honest with him about what your goals and wants are. Then buy what he recommends!

Use air to gain horsepower first, fuel second. Air is a much MUCH safer way to gain power in my opinion.

Buy your transmission kit from Mike or Evan. Tell them what turbo you just ordered from Mark at Danville and let them choose the right converter for your build.

Just because you want to do the work yourself means you have to reinvent the wheel here. Take the advice from the people that already know. You can still feel good about piecing it all together and assembling everything on your truck yourself. But don't go out of your way to "swim against the current" just so you can say you did.


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If I have seen farther, it is because I stand on the shoulders of giants. —Sir Isaac Newton

I’ve been reading everything I can get my hands on about rebuilds. I’ve walked through the ATSG manual a couple times.

And ya, if I found a kit that also has support and they have a wicked good sled pulling record and name, and it’s $2700. Ya. Taking that one. DHD isn’t a bad choice. Their kit is all Mike L. And not Transgo. Or also considering going through ATP since they have my tuning.

Mike no longer prepares kits for shipping. That’s where I went first. And how exactly did Mike and Evan get to be so damn good? More than one of those “secret sauce” parts they include in their builds were a “guess I’ll try this and see if it helps or hurts” sort of build. Built off the previous knowledge of those around them but pioneered by them. When Rob started doing twins, that was new ground. Somebody has to do it. And I have the luxury of listening to them on here, on podcasts, and calling them up for an opinion. If you didn’t notice from my post on my K10, ya, I reinvent the wheel, or my dash, or my entire drivetrain if I feel like it. All in the name of fun and learning. I certainly don’t intend to melt or blow anything up. But I do intend to learn. And sometimes that is the backfire. And if I don’t do my own stuff on my first, I’ll probably never build my own. I’ll just buy built ones, and that’s just too easy to be fun. Engine and transmission swaps are mundane now. I want something more. Oh, also have a mini-Duramax (4BD1T) just sitting on a stand converted for a SBC housing. Still figuring what to put it in. And it’s turnt up about as high as that little pump will go. Packing a Holset 35. A 5.9 turbo on a 3.8. Should be fun.

You don’t have to get my angle. And I fully respect yours. I get buying damn good parts from damn good guys, but I break from that sometimes. I just love taking things apart too much. And nobody needs to chime in and say, “you better cause you’re gonna be in there again.” I’ve been there before. And I’ll be there again.

 

[BrandonLLY]

I have a question for all the experts on here......

If high drive pressure and high timing kill head gaskets, then why have I repaired more 100% bone stock LB7s, LLYs, LBZs, and LMMs with blown head gaskets then modified ones???

I've repaired a ton of blown Headgaskets in completely stock trucks. Some as low mileage as 56,000 miles.....

And I've personally seen LLYs (the "supposed" worst offender) that are turned up still going strong at over 250,000 miles.


Now just to make it clear. I am NOT SAYING that excessively high drive pressure or timing is ok! Just asking if that is what causes them to fail, why do so many stock trucks fail?


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(Im not an expert)

Probably due to the ratio of stock trucks to modified trucks. What do you think maybe 1/10 guys heavily modify their vehicle. So if there are 10 times as many stock trucks as there are modified..just using this as an example. Obviously dont know the exact numbers.

 

[IOWA LLY]

If I have seen farther, it is because I stand on the shoulders of giants. —Sir Isaac Newton

I’ve been reading everything I can get my hands on about rebuilds. I’ve walked through the ATSG manual a couple times.

And ya, if I found a kit that also has support and they have a wicked good sled pulling record and name, and it’s $2700. Ya. Taking that one. DHD isn’t a bad choice. Their kit is all Mike L. And not Transgo. Or also considering going through ATP since they have my tuning.

Mike no longer prepares kits for shipping. That’s where I went first. And how exactly did Mike and Evan get to be so damn good? More than one of those “secret sauce” parts they include in their builds were a “guess I’ll try this and see if it helps or hurts” sort of build. Built off the previous knowledge of those around them but pioneered by them. When Rob started doing twins, that was new ground. Somebody has to do it. And I have the luxury of listening to them on here, on podcasts, and calling them up for an opinion. If you didn’t notice from my post on my K10, ya, I reinvent the wheel, or my dash, or my entire drivetrain if I feel like it. All in the name of fun and learning. I certainly don’t intend to melt or blow anything up. But I do intend to learn. And sometimes that is the backfire. And if I don’t do my own stuff on my first, I’ll probably never build my own. I’ll just buy built ones, and that’s just too easy to be fun. Engine and transmission swaps are mundane now. I want something more. Oh, also have a mini-Duramax (4BD1T) just sitting on a stand converted for a SBC housing. Still figuring what to put it in. And it’s turnt up about as high as that little pump will go. Packing a Holset 35. A 5.9 turbo on a 3.8. Should be fun.

You don’t have to get my angle. And I fully respect yours. I get buying damn good parts from damn good guys, but I break from that sometimes. I just love taking things apart too much. And nobody needs to chime in and say, “you better cause you’re gonna be in there again.” I’ve been there before. And I’ll be there again.

Good luck man.

Too bad you weren't around 12 years ago. Your attitude would have made sense and been welcomed at that point.


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[Awenta]

It’s because Evan actually specs his kits out so they fit right


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[jmdorris]

12 years ago I was 17 and building a hot SBC for that K10. Just now getting the kind of salary that allows me to play w diesels. It’s not a cheap hobby. If I wasn’t in love with the power I’d go back to gas. So much cheaper speed.


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[jmdorris]

And the day of innovation isn’t dead. Just a few years ago they thought 1000hp in a street truck without lag was impossible. But now lots of guys do it. Now they’re hitting 3000hp at the big end. There’s more to come. In all the history of motorsports, they always figure a way to bring racetrack power to the street. Takes a while. But they do.

Has anyone looked into Koeniggsegg’s freevalve engine? That’s the next giant leap. It takes the piezo/solenoid system we use for our injectors and puts it on the valves. Tunable valves because there’s no cam whatsoever. Just open and closed. Lightning fast. The flow rate increases are immense. And they are offering it to other manufacturers with royalties. I’d do some terrible things to get my hands on a set of Duramax heads or a Cummins head with that setup.


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