LMM: Ever Seen a New Engine Do This?

[DmaxLMM]

A couple months ago I had a well known and reputable shop put a built motor into my truck (motor was built my a engine builder that is well known in the diesel community, no costs were spared). Started burning about 2-3 quarts every 200 miles, so with about 3k miles on the motor brought it back in to the shop that installed the engine to get checked out. They reported that the turbos werent the issue (couldnt see oil in the exhaust or compressor), then continued on to do a compression test. Well long story short they pulled a head. Below are the pics. Initially the motor builder said it was to hot and the pistons melted, but it was just burnt oil on the edges of the piston, in the other photos you can see where the piston was cleaned and wasnt melted. Cylinder walls looks like hell. After the piston theory didnt pan out the engine builder said it must have been the injectors, since I have DDP injectors, and not Exergy, at this point I am loosing faith and it sounds like they are reaching for straws so they dont take blame. Currently having the shop that installed it pull it back out of the truck and bring it to a third party unbiased engine builder to see if they can figure out what went wrong. FYI, all 8 cylinders look the same. I am not going to mention business names for the time being till I see what the problem is and if they are going to make it right.

Engine Specs:
Callies Crank
Carillo Rods
Mahle Pistons
Billet Flex Plate
ARP Hardware
Alt Fire Camshaft
ATI Damper
CNC Ported Heads


Anyones opinions would be appreciated, specially if you have previously seen something like this.

 

[kubitza123]

How hard was the motor ran? Broke in? What kind of exhaust temps did it see?

 

[WVRigrat05]

Piston to wall clearance too tight?

 

[Chevy1925]

All 8 injectors would have to have been throwing a lot of fuel in there to wash the cylinders and cause that.

That looks like a machining issue like too tight piston to wall or rings upside down or wrong rings all together or oil starvation to the cyl wall.

Cast or forge pistons? What rings? Bored over? How big of injectors?

 

[TheBac]

Piston to wall clearance too tight?

First thing I thought, too.

 

[DmaxLMM]

How hard was the motor ran? Broke in? What kind of exhaust temps did it see?

Shop broke it in. Motor was ran pretty easy, with the twins hottest it got was 1350 and that was for a couple seconds. Didn’t tow till about 2500 miles on motor and was about 12k. Never saw over tune 2 and tuning was by ATP...

 

[DmaxLMM]

Cast or forge pistons? What rings? Bored over? How big of injectors?

Cast pistons, rings came with the pistons from mahle, pistons were “thermal” coated (per recommendation of engine builder), .020 over. Injectors are 60%. S476sxe and a promax 64 for turbos...

 

[kidturbo]

Cast pistons, rings came with the pistons from mahle, pistons were “thermal” coated (per recommendation of engine builder), .020 over. Injectors are 60%. S476sxe and a promax 64 for turbos...

Are all those piston tops the same color? Doesn't look so in the pics.

My first though is something mildly abrasive has eaten up those cylinder walls. And for certain your reason it was burning oil. If piston to wall clearance is correct, then I'm leaning towards coating adhesion issues.. There is some gritty looking stuff around the edges that shouldn't be there.

 

[Budneeds2beers]

Looks lik a coating issue. Hard to tell with those pictures but it looks like small chips on the outside piston head. Be nice to see rings and what the domes of the head look like. Wonder if you have fine pitting around the edges of the dome?

Sucks sorry to read about this.

 

[NC-smokinlmm]

I agree with Kidturbo, looks like coating didn't adhere properly and acted like a cutting agent in your cylinder walls...

 

[dmaxstore]

Daaang that really sucks DmaxLMM. The parts you have are a winning combo for sure. We have used the same components in many builds with excellent results. Except the thermal coated piston.


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[Ne-max]

I would say she was built to tight myself.

 

[kidturbo]

If pistons are too tight, your typically gonna see some aluminum streaks stuck to the walls. Not as "clean" as this one. Recently saw pic of some big HP Cummins pistons and block where clearance was an issue and, it gaulded streaks into the block. This one looks more like a fine abrasive issue.

I'm guessing they carried the TBC over the edge and down to top ring, and it flaked off acting like sandpaper. Only time I've personally seen similar wear pattern, on a gas engine I rebuilt back in the late 80's. Machine shop bead blaseted the heads and forgot to wash them out. When I set the heads on, some of the fine shot material fell into cylinders, and damage looked very similar. Started smoking and used oil. Upon tear down we found that shot stuck to the rings.. My advice, measure everything, then break out the magnifying glass...

Very interested to hear what it is since I have two engines setting here ready to go with TBC pistons..

 

[Burn Down]

It’s not tore down far enough in my opinion. It looks dusted to me but I would like to see a couple pistons out and cleaned up gently with some brake clean and a very soft brush.

 

[DmaxLMM]

Have any of you guys heard or seen thermal coating on pistons fail?


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[DmaxLMM]

It’s not tore down far enough in my opinion. It looks dusted to me but I would like to see a couple pistons out and cleaned up gently with some brake clean and a very soft brush.

Having a third party engine builder do the tear down and inspection.

 

[jlawles2]

Almost looks like something in the oil or rings. Have them check the squirters.

Something in the oil would act like an abrasive and wear the walls, this would mean that the filter is either plugged and bypassing or not working at all.

Rings could have bad heat treating or could be broke causing the issues.

 

[Burn Down]

Having a third party engine builder do the tear down and inspection.

Thats a good idea:thumb:

 

[Chevy1925]

Have any of you guys heard or seen thermal coating on pistons fail?


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Yes but only on the tops of the piston and looking like it burnt off. That coating you have looks a lot like what mahle does and theirs generally holds up

 

[JoshH]

Don't take this the wrong way, but I hope you talked with your builder before you came to the forum to have a bunch of strangers speculate on what happened with your motor. It is one thing to share what happened after the fact to educate and help spare someone the same fate or to come to the forum when you have exhausted all your options, but as a shop owner, I hate having someone come to me with "internet facts" before I even have a chance to look at their truck (whether they are a new customer or a return customer having an issue with previous work). Self educated or internet educated customers are some of the worst. Not because they know it all, but often the opinions they get online are different or in conflict with mine. Like I said, I don't mean to offend, and I hope you get your issues resolved. Best of luck to you. I'm sorry for your troubles; I know from experience that losing a built engine is never fun.