Engine

[JOHNBOY]

Johnboy. whats up with all the discusion on crower rods, these are what i was going to do, are these rod length problems happening alot or just a few cases (i.e. maxfarmer)?

I can not really say. I have Crowers and they are right on. I only have one set so who knows. Trippin would be a better person to ask as he has handled more than just 8 like me. I have had a chance to look at a TTS (i.e. R&R) rods. They looked looked nice. But looks are not everything. Crower has been making rods for a long time. They have a great name for a reason.

That price of $1500 is awesome if true. $2700 is out of hand IMHO. Crower and R&R machine these from a billet (ie. bar) . The cost should not be that high to do that. Carrillo has invested in the tooling to forge blanks that takes money and lots of it and Carrillo rods with ARP bolts are only $300 more?

 

[bullfrogjohnson]

say i am going to do a similar build but with a HTT, i am not wanting to run dual cp3's but am going to run SD's modded pressure regulator

i would love to run big injectors, like don m fusion 2, but at what size can the stock cp3 not keep up at?

 

[duratothemax]

If I wanted to stick with I-beams, are the R&R's the best choice? I cant see spending the extra $$ for the H beam carillo's when theres not much to prove they are better...

My heads are going to stay stock. No money to do anything performance oriented with them. But if I were to do ONE SINGLE thing to the heads, it should be Trippin's valve springs?? Key the cam, maybe talk to guy about how much a mild cam would cost. Pistons...maybe just shave the lip off some LB7's...I dont need anything lower than 16:1....Ill be sticking with the HTT. Maybe main studs if I have $ left over, but IMO I havent heard of enough failures to warrant them. Pat did 750rwhp with the HTT and all stock engine...I would like to have that and run fast in the 1/4 mile but WITH reliability. Mind you 95% of my daily driving and towing would be with a small tune. I just want to be able to run 700rwhp whenever I want to without worrying...

What im thinking of.

rods
head studs
key the cam and crank
valve springs
cut stock pistons
stock everything else

Thats going to be what Im basing my build around. If I have any money left over after thats done, maybe Ill look into a cam, probably not tho.

 

[sweetdiesel]

thats what me is thinking to

 

[JOHNBOY]

If I wanted to stick with I-beams, are the R&R's the best choice? I cant see spending the extra $$ for the H beam carillo's when theres not much to prove they are better...

You missing the the real advantage of the Carrillo rod. It is Forged vs. Billet. The "I" beam design for this application maybe slightly better than "H" beam. But that is not the whole story. The real advantage is better grain structure of the forged design. A billet rod the way it is made the grain flow does not flow the shape of the rod. The oreintation of the billet when machined controls that. The forging process forms the grain stucture to the shape of the part. I will use the big end as a example. Think of the crank pin hole as like being a knot hole in a board of wood. The grain flows around the knot hole. Now drill a hole in that board. The grain does not run around it. It runs right into it. From the which hole in the board would you most easily start a split? The drilled hole of coarse. Because the spilt can follow the grain flow much easier. Now I am not saying that the billets are not up to the job. They are! That is proven. I have Crowers from Trippin myself. The "I" beam vs. "H" beam debate is really not the reason to choose one over the other IMHO. If you want the strongest rod possible and are not concerned about the added weight get the Carrillos. If your worried about weight or just thrifty the R&Rs or the Crowers would be the way to go.



My heads are going to stay stock. No money to do anything performance oriented with them. But if I were to do ONE SINGLE thing to the heads, it should be Trippin's valve springs?? Key the cam, maybe talk to guy about how much a mild cam would cost. Pistons...maybe just shave the lip off some LB7's...I dont need anything lower than 16:1....Ill be sticking with the HTT. Maybe main studs if I have $ left over, but IMO I havent heard of enough failures to warrant them. Pat did 750rwhp with the HTT and all stock engine...I would like to have that and run fast in the 1/4 mile but WITH reliability. Mind you 95% of my daily driving and towing would be with a small tune. I just want to be able to run 700rwhp whenever I want to without worrying...

What im thinking of.

rods
head studs
key the cam and crank
valve springs
cut stock pistons
pushrods
Main stud and bolt kit
stock everything else

Thats going to be what Im basing my build around. If I have any money left over after thats done, maybe Ill look into a cam, probably not tho.

Ben

That is what I considered a great street build. I pefer the HTT for its wastegate. I would also go with the Stainless Steel exhaust housing because of it higher flow wastegate. It would be better able to keep the turbo on the map even with to CP3s pushing it at high rpm.

 

[ecc_33]

Talked to the guy at R&R today....They are making the TTS rods and they are also 2750$ he said Steve has all of them. I told him i didnt care for Steve that much and he started laughing? Said im not the first person to tell him that .....He said you dont even have to balance or machine anything to put R&R's in the block....He said they are very very close to the stock wieght of a stock rod! he also said if you put all three side by side, carrillo,R&R,Crower, you would like the R&R's just by looking at them visually.
He also said some rods that he makes are sent to crower and so forth with just other peoples names on them like TTS.....The guy was very nice and straight forward with me on anything
Heres the number for your pleasure 1-815-465-6741

He also told me hes working on input and output shafts for steve and some kind of clutch hub assembly for the trannies? Maybe the planetary gears? or C# clutch drum

 

[bullfrogjohnson]

say i am going to do a similar build but with a HTT, i am not wanting to run dual cp3's but am going to run SD's modded pressure regulator

i would love to run big injectors, like don m fusion 2, but at what size can the stock cp3 not keep up at?

bump

 

[Diesel Pilot]

I can't hang around here anymore. This performance diesel stuff is crazy expensive.

Now, where did I put that '68 Barracuda I forgot about 5 years ago.

 

[02freighttrain]

I can't hang around here anymore. This performance diesel stuff is crazy expensive.

Now, where did I put that '68 Barracuda I forgot about 5 years ago.

Hope that wasn't one of the 50 stick shift or 51 automatic Hemi cars they made with Hurst for SS racing. Those are pricey, but if you get one can I drive it?

 

[JOHNBOY]

Working on my engine I have to work around my 66 Nova SS roller in the other bay. I have thought to myself a bunch of times how far that would be if I could have left tow truck alone.

 

[ecc_33]

Hope that wasn't one of the 50 stick shift or 51 automatic Hemi cars they made with Hurst for SS racing. Those are pricey, but if you get one can I drive it?

nope its just a baby 340 car with a slipomatic in her

very pretty car though

 

[ecc_33]

bullfrog you probly will gain alittle with the bigger sticks but you will have to back the fuel shot down for the gain in the injectors....you will have to fine tune it till you substain about 20,000psi of rail pressure. The best way to tune that would be on a dyno

 

[JOHNBOY]

Eric

I got a hold of my buddy at Hutter's today. He said going price $150 for line hone and $280 for balance job if no heavy metal is needed. Which with the R&Rs or Crower's it should not be.

 

[duratothemax]

how much $ are we looking at for pushrods and valve springs?

How necessary are pushrods? I have my rev limiter set to 3850 and have no desire to set it higher than that even after the build. Pushrods are really necessary?

 

[bullfrogjohnson]

how much $ are we looking at for pushrods and valve springs?

How necessary are pushrods? I have my rev limiter set to 3850 and have no desire to set it higher than that even after the build. Pushrods are really necessary?

Ben, my thoughs would be if you are running a heavier duty valve spring you are gonna want a heavy duty push rod or you might run into problems with bending the stock push rods

 

[ecc_33]

Ben,
Johnboy,Me,My cousin have been turing 46--+ for along time now and no problems yet knock on wood....Now i guess it would change with more boost pressure.

Thanks Johnboy for checking on the pricing

Kinda off topic but Mcrat did you run the "big" exhaust housing when you were running the gt4088r? And did you wrap your downpipe in heat wrap?

 

[JOHNBOY]

Eric

No Problem

Ben

Guy has push rods. $300 IIRC. EEP also has them. That is what I have. Not sure of the price as they came with the cam. With the heavier seat pressures of the Socal springs I would not risk a valvetrain train wreak in a $10k+ engine over a $300 dollar set of push rods.

IIRC stock push rods .056 wall tubing. Socal .093, EEP.125.

I think EEPs are over kill but I going to try them. I am a little worried about their weight. I might by some from Guy just in case.


It takes cubic dollars to build one of these things right. I quit counting a while ago. It was starting to scare me. Joy is still counting though.:rofl: I going to need more shiny things.

 

[super diesel]

Right on the money about the push rods. I would hate to skimp and find out latter (during a run) that there needed. It is VERY costly to put one together right (depending on what you want to do with it). Change the valve train bolts (5 on each side) as well with at least some grade 8 bolts too when going to the better valve springs. I believe the full open pressure is almost twices the stocker pressure.

 

[SmokeShow]

This is interesting. Here is what I - a person just looking in from the outside and not actually building anything - see going on here. There is very little difference in what a person does to their engine whether they are going for mild or wild. Either way you seem to do rods (same rods either way so no cost difference), pistons (kinda limited on choices so what you do for one, you likely do for the other type of build and thereagain, no difference in price), heavy duty valvetrain (springs, pushrods, etc.), cam and crank keyed. Only way to "skimp" for a lesser build is the cam and heads for which you would run stockers versus modified units. I suppose if you ran a big lift cam, you may have to do a little more to your pistons for valve clearance otherwise, all else the same? Am I seeing it right? Cam and heads are the only real difference between mild and wild engine builds? Then of course what size charger(s) you strap on the thing (not really a whole lot of cost difference in the overall scheme of things whether you run a 2.5, 2.8 or twins) and how much fuel you want to push at it (single or dual CP3).


C-ya

 

[02freighttrain]

This is interesting. Here is what I - a person just looking in from the outside and not actually building anything - see going on here. There is very little difference in what a person does to their engine whether they are going for mild or wild. Either way you seem to do rods (same rods either way so no cost difference), pistons (kinda limited on choices so what you do for one, you likely do for the other type of build and thereagain, no difference in price), heavy duty valvetrain (springs, pushrods, etc.), cam and crank keyed. Only way to "skimp" for a lesser build is the cam and heads for which you would run stockers versus modified units. I suppose if you ran a big lift cam, you may have to do a little more to your pistons for valve clearance otherwise, all else the same? Am I seeing it right? Cam and heads are the only real difference between mild and wild engine builds? Then of course what size charger(s) you strap on the thing (not really a whole lot of cost difference in the overall scheme of things whether you run a 2.5, 2.8 or twins) and how much fuel you want to push at it (single or dual CP3).


C-ya

Yea, that somes it up pretty good. It's gonna cost a lot, once you go inside the motor if you do it right. There are some other things that can rack the bill on up, like, injectors. If you trust your old ones then all you need are nozzels ($7-800). Using new remans and nozzels will add quite a bit.
There are a lot of little thing that will add a grand more as it go's together.
I hate to think about it (ouch), but there is no way around it.