DuraMax Mechanical injection

[Sentry]

Hello to everyone,

I was reading the forum, but I could´t find more than two or three entrence about this topic, and they did´t give any information, only a video of a tractor in Youtube.

I have the possibility to buy a Chevrolet Silverado, thinking in a double use. One as my daily-working vehicle and the other as an EMP-proof apocalypse vehicle. However, I know that the DuraMax engine is electronic controlled, at least the fuel injection and the fuel pump. I would like to know if it is possible convert a standard electric controlled injection to mechanical injection and fuel pump. What are the parts needed for the conversion? Does it exist any kit with all the parts and instructions to make the conversion easy? How much?

Thank you in advance for the help.

 

[AZlml]

Save your money for more bullets for the apocalypse.

 

[DAVe3283]

It is technically possible, but IMO not worth the effort. No kits are made, because with a modern high pressure common rail injection system, you can make all the power you want and have it run consistently. Just pick up an old 6.2L Detroit or 12V Cummins and be done with it.

As an aside, if you are somewhere that has enough EM flux (EMP) that it knocks out an ECU, any biological matter nearby (such as you) will be rendered sterile and die shortly of radiation poisoning. Even if someone makes a pure EMP weapon, intentionally leaving people/animals alive, the EM flux alone would cook you just as easily as a computer. People are mostly saline (salt water), and saline conducts electricity. Current through water generates heat, and enough heat to melt copper will melt you too.

Basically, if you did build the ultimate mechanical Duramax, you wouldn't be the one using it. Some dude wandering through the wasteland and finding it later would.

If you want to build one as a project, or to learn, cool! Share progress and photos, but no real bolt-on kit or anything. It would be a custom one-off.

 

[2004LB7]

2x to the above

More information here:

and an excerpt (bold type done by me):https://www.futurescience.com/emp/vehicles.html

"Based on these test results, we expect few automobile effects at EMP field levels below 25 kV/m. Approximately 10 percent or more of the automobiles exposed to higher field levels may experience serious EMP effects, including engine stall, that require driver intervention to correct. We further expect that at least two out of three automobiles on the road will manifest some nuisance response at these higher field levels. The serious malfunctions could trigger car crashes on U.S. highways; the nuisance malfunctions could exacerbate this condition. The ultimate result of automobile EMP exposure could be triggered crashes that damage many more vehicles than are damaged by the EMP, the consequent loss of life, and multiple injuries.

Trucks

As is the case for automobiles, the potential EMP vulnerability of trucks derives from the trend toward increasing use of electronics. We assessed the EMP vulnerability of trucks using an approach identical to that used for automobiles. Eighteen running and nonrunning trucks were exposed to simulated EMP in a laboratory. The intensity of the EMP fields was increased until either anomalous response was observed or simulator limits were reached. The trucks ranged from gasoline-powered pickup trucks to large diesel-powered tractors. Truck vintages ranged from 1991 to 2003.

Of the trucks that were not running during EMP exposure, none were subsequently affected during our test. Thirteen of the 18 trucks exhibited a response while running. Most seriously, three of the truck motors stopped. Two could be restarted immediately, but one required towing to a garage for repair. The other 10 trucks that responded exhibited relatively minor temporary responses that did not require driver intervention to correct. Five of the 18 trucks tested did not exhibit any anomalous response up to field strengths of approximately 50 kV/m.

Based on these test results, we expect few truck effects at EMP field levels below approximately 12 kV/m. At higher field levels, 70 percent or more of the trucks on the road will manifest some anomalous response following EMP exposure. Approximately 15 percent or more of the trucks will experience engine stall, sometimes with permanent damage that the driver cannot correct. Similar to the case for automobiles, the EMP impact on trucks could trigger vehicle crashes on U.S. highways. As a result, many more vehicles could be damaged than those damaged directly by EMP exposure."


From the above information and because of the realistic possibility of this i have placed this quite low on my priority list. just think about all of the other electronics that will be affected at the same time if something was powerful enough to knock out a majority of the vehicles. Cell phones (trying to get in touch with other family to see if they are OK, etc), radios for news, etc, two way radios / Ham radios, etc. there would be far more chaos than most will be able to handle. think about all of the roads that will be clogged up with stalled cars. at that point you may be better off with a motorcycle, bicycle, or just walking. if you have a running rig someone will likely pull a gun on you to steal it

my 2 cents

 

[NC-smokinlmm]

Go buy a 12 valve cummins...

 

[zakkb787]

6.2 FTW!!! Run it off veggie oil. Love mine. Slow but it's a tank

 

[TROJAN366]

Ii would suggest saving your money for tin foil helmets.

 

[Yngdmax92]

Pshhh did this back in 2009. Appears to be pretty sweet!
https://youtu.be/uk-2ViFLwPY

 

[Weisguy]

6.2 FTW!!! Run it off veggie oil. Love mine. Slow but it's a tank

My first vehicle was a 6.2 with over 300k miles. It still went everywhere but didn't have the most towing power. It was the biggest pita to start in a winter up north. I kept it for 5 years before an oil cooler line blew and locked the motor. I still regret parting it out. But if you are looking for something to mow through crowds of zombies and buildings while never slowing down, you might want to consider a 12 valve cummins.

 

[zakkb787]

My first vehicle was a 6.2 with over 300k miles. It still went everywhere but didn't have the most towing power. It was the biggest pita to start in a winter up north. I kept it for 5 years before an oil cooler line blew and locked the motor. I still regret parting it out. But if you are looking for something to mow through crowds of zombies and buildings while never slowing down, you might want to consider a 12 valve cummins.

Mine starts pretty good being straight wired to a toggle switch with a ford starter solenoid. It's actually my dd for the moment while my duramax awaits a new AC compressor. It's the only vehicle in my family that has never laid down on us. And funny enough had towed the ones that have home. Even with a 700r4 that slipped for years. I love it. Never getting rid of it.

 

[Weisguy]

Mine starts pretty good being straight wired to a toggle switch with a ford starter solenoid. It's actually my dd for the moment while my duramax awaits a new AC compressor. It's the only vehicle in my family that has never laid down on us. And funny enough had towed the ones that have home. Even with a 700r4 that slipped for years. I love it. Never getting rid of it.

Thats awesome. I had mine when ohio was getting negative double digits everyday. I would drain both batteries twice before it started. It probably didn't help that I couldn't plug in the block heater where I worked. When I did plug it in, it would start after a while of cranking on it. Mine just hated any uphill pulls. I had to make sure I got my speed up first. I wanted to put a 6.5 turbo on it but the heads wouldn't handle it.

 

[JoshH]

Ii would suggest saving your money for tin foil helmets.

Where is the like button? :rofl:

 

[six5creed]

6.2 FTW!!! Run it off veggie oil. Love mine. Slow but it's a tank

My first truck had a 6.2 diesel in it, it was iffy going to K-Mart, I wouldn't dare trust it through an apocalypse.

 

[2004LB7]

The way I see it, we are more likely to have mass riots, civil unrest followed by Marshall law then some kind of of EMP attack or nuclear winter.

A large natural disaster is also possible but usually limited to localized areas with (most of the time) some advance notice. Earthquakes I guess can happen without notice but if it was bad enough to need evacuation the amount of damage will prevent you from driving out with your EMP proof truck.

 

[DAVe3283]

I own a 1982 C10 with the 6.2L. It is a turd of a motor, doesn't like to start or run below 20°F, and doesn't like hills. But it almost never craps out, and will run on anything.

A 12V Cummins would make way more power and arguably be more reliable, but they are pricey. You can get several 6.2L motors for the price of one 12V, and just keep swapping parts as things wear out.

 

[2004LB7]

I would also look at what engine is more plentiful. How many are on the roads.now. That way if you need parts you can salvage them off of abandoned vehicles

 

[Sentry]

I really appreciate all the answers. I have to say that I am currently in Europe. This means, that the Silverado is an imported car, because the largest sold pickup truck in Europe is the Ford Ranger. The Silverado, F150 or RAM are imported trucks. Why did I select an American pickup truck? They are big, with a big reliable engine, with a high-volume load capacity and with a body on frame construction. The cars, SUVs and even vans in Europe are mainly unibody design, that I don´t like and it is a bit worse in a scenario where you have some collisions (not easy reparations). The engines are also small (2.5 or 3.0l as much) and very over demanded, so the life time of these engines are lower, even half, than the life time of American engines. In addition, swap an engine in Europe is complicated and expensive. First, the best way is buy other truck with your selected engine. However, if the new engine is 15% more or less powerful or gives 20% more or less torque, you have to homologate the swap, because it is considered a mayor modification. The homologation consists in an engineer checking the truck and making some test. To satisfies the requirements, it is very probable that you will need to swap not only the engine, but also the transmission, the differentials, and practically 100% sure, the suspension and breaks. Apart, the modification has to be done by a homologated technician, which increases the price even more with respect to a standard mechanics. Therefore, swap the engines are really expensive.

I am surprised that there is not kit for the conversion, I found a kit for the Ford PowerStroke engine. I read something to adapt the mechanical injector of the GM 6.5 diesel in the Duramax, but I don´t know if it is possible. Other option is look some old sivererado with the 6.2 or 6.5 engines. However, in Europe the offer is reduced and the prices higher than in US and import a truck is also very expensive. I prefer a Silverado, but I guess that if I want to make a conversion to mechanical engine, I will need a F150 or a RAM with the Cummins, at least that I can install the mechanical injector of a 6.5L diesel engine.

Anyway, if somebody know or indicate me what are the modifications (at least in a general way) that I have to do to convert the Duramax in a mechanical injected diesel engine, I appreciate that you indicate me to make me an idea of what it is the needed work in the engine.

On the other hand, the injector and fuel pump are the only electronic controlled parts in the Duramax, or there are some parts that I forgot?

 

[2004LB7]

Wouldn't it be more practical, not that it would be easy by any means, to just harden the electrical system by wrapping all exposed wires with foil tape?

 

[Sentry]

Shield an electronic circuit is very difficult. The study that you cited is a study of the EMP Commission Critical National Infrastructures Report that was performed around 2000. The study is partially classified, and I think that the conclusions that they published are the one associated with the E3 in solar storms, not the other pulses presented in a HEMP. Both are electromagnetic phenomenas, but the HEMP (high-altitude electromagnetic pulse) presents differences with the solar storms. The HEMP is in reality 3 different pulses, classified as E1, E2, E3. The E1 and E2 are the shorter in duration and higher in frequency and intensity than the E3. The E1 and E2 are the responsible for the destruction of electronic and some electric components, while the E3 is the one that appears in both, HEMP and solar storm, and has a bigger interaction with problems or destruction of electric net. The unique way to make a shield is creating a Faraday cage that doesn´t present holes bigger than the wavelength of the electromagnetic pulse. The problem is the input/output cables that can transmit the pulse inside the cage and then it is even worse, because the pulse will be confined in the cage, and can create a larger damage. Although I can have some electronics, I have to keep spare parts in a Faraday cage, so as more electronic component, more parts can be damage and more spare parts have to be keep safe and change in the event of a HEMP. This is the main reason why I am looking for a diesel engine, that can be pure mechanical as a difference with a gas engine, as it is the case with the old 6.2 and 6.5l diesel engines. However, as the truck will have a dual use, I need something a bit newer, and that it is the main reason because I want to modify a Duramax engine.

 

[DAVe3283]

The Duramax has a lot of sensors to make the fuel injection system work right, but at the end of the day, the only part that has to be controlled by a computer is the injectors. The fuel pump will work with the harness unplugged, but will have much shorter life.

If you wanted to make the Duramax mechanical, you would need to remove the CP3 (fuel pump) and add a mechanical pump of some kind. You might need to make a custom cam inside the pump, or run it off a chain/belt to get the timing right. Finally, you would need to find/make some poppet injectors to work with the mechanical pump. Not to mention all the lines to connect everything.

Odds are the kits for the PowerStroke you saw were simply retrofitting the mechanical injection setup that was stock on the 6.9L to the 7.3L. I saw one kit did a P-Pump conversion, but it cost a ridiculous amount of money, and was still for the 7.3, which could use the 6.9 setup for cheap.

If your concern is cost, I think converting a Duramax to mechanical will cost more than paying the homologation to swap in an existing mechanical diesel. I would expect to pay $10,000 US or more just for parts, assuming you do all the engineering and labor yourself.

For $10k, I will ship you a 1982 Chevy C10 with the 6.2L diesel, the cable conversion (removes the electric kill switch for a cable), and a couple spare engines, just in case. :thumb: