$130 for the 2 sleeves and $300 for the specific machine work and then an additional $200 to torque plate finish hone all 8
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Duramax build and the machine shop.
- Thread starter Frogman1
- Start date
whats piston to wall clearance now? ive always been concerned with pressing old sleeves out, pressing new ones in and not distorting the cyl next to it to teh point even with a hone, PTW clearance becomes too large. if it needs a sleeve, i usually have the block bored over so everything comes out nice.
Are there downsides to fingers pistons besides sound and fuel economy or are those both myths as well? Hasn't Mark Broviak pushed them past 1,500HP or something like that?
We're going on 2 seasons on our forgd fingers. We run at either 1250 or 1510, depending on which org we pull with.
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Cast for daily driving correct Forged for dedicated race or pulling truck?
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Yes. Although both could do either. Cast will hold up very well in most applications
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There is a slight difference in sound, not much... you will notice a drop in fuel economy..... I don't know if you'll notice it as much if your trucks a DD, I've only ever pulled trailer with mine...
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Sorry for the delayed response- Knee surgery.
James,
I was planning on assembling it. It's a first time/pride thing, and I would also wan't to know that it was done as right as could be done by myself without shortcuts. What's your take?
The place handling the engine block is Gregory's Fleet supply and Machine shop. The guy running the show there was recommended to me by a place called Blackwater Engines, a large scale industrial Duramax engine builder here in VA Beach who has long standing ties machine shop wise with this guy. His prices seem high but he seemed genuine, provided I get my block back and not an old block he swapped for a friend. I'm retired military and have trust issues.
I ordered Clevite H main and rod bearings through him for a few dollars less than what I could get online and gave him both sets of main bolts (ARP and factory) with caps but told him if it was more than a quick hone or reshaping the bearings, I would just go with the factory bolts rather than give him an extra $500 to bore the crank bores. Thanks for the good news on the not needing the ARP studs at this point.
He's boring to .020 over for $200, (fluxing I believe), cleaning for $100, and going to pressure test for $150. I asked about him doing an internal balance and he said $500 or $300 if I figured out the weights, which I had done. I've not agreed to that and don't really think I'm going to go that route with him. The Carillos came with a balanced weights card. The PPE Mahle's were all the same less one piston that was 1.5 grams light. From what I've found, that's about the weight of a 1/2 sheet of paper and not worth worrying about as less than 2g total weight per assembly as a whole is minimal for a diesel. Rings and pins were the same. I weighted my old LBZ piston/crank assemblies and they were all over the place, as far as 14grams difference, and all of my bearings looked really nice for the mileage. The new stuff is quite a bit lighter even with the Carillos and heavy pins by about 65g if I remember correctly.
The Mahle rings that came with the pistons are 42160-020 so we're good so long as they don't screw up the block.
The crank is getting keyed at another less confident very general fabrication shop (the first I found) and we're at 23 days now with a promised NLT Thursday of last week.
The cam is due back tomorrow with a mild grind from Shannon's now in Tacoma. I will need to get it keyed locally as well by someone skilled in the importance of precision keying.
I wasn't going to worry about the heads as the engine had great compression 380-400psi per cylinder before I disassembled it.
Thank you for the fueling pulse width information. I had no idea. The Male PPE performance piston set is .020 over and 16.5:1 for $1340 delivered to my door. I would have very much liked the higher compression ratios and genius design from Fingers 17.5:1 but was advised against going higher than 16.5:1 due to more lower end strain risk and higher head pressures. Not to mention from what I found online, I would have paid $2300-$2700 for Fingers and I'm not planning weekend trips to the drag strip.
The GT4088r bearing turbo that I purchased is probably the largest I can likely fit on the pedestal in the valley (hopefully). It claims about 700hp and that's with the standard impeller. The GTX claims 800 plus with an 11 blade so that was my thinking. The turbo falls right smack in the middle of the windshield frame on the Hummer and so it's gonna be close. I suppose I could use the 4088 as a twin and put the factory VV-3788 back in the valley? Not sure how that would work, or vice-versa?
The goal right now is to get my block, crank, and cam back in ready condition and get the thing back together and running so that I can move on to the next stage of the build. Right now I've got a lot out there and no positive forward gains and it's time for me to start reassembling the monster collection of parts if I can remember where they all go! I'll post some pics as well. Thanks for the guidance.
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James,
I was planning on assembling it. It's a first time/pride thing, and I would also wan't to know that it was done as right as could be done by myself without shortcuts. What's your take?
The place handling the engine block is Gregory's Fleet supply and Machine shop. The guy running the show there was recommended to me by a place called Blackwater Engines, a large scale industrial Duramax engine builder here in VA Beach who has long standing ties machine shop wise with this guy. His prices seem high but he seemed genuine, provided I get my block back and not an old block he swapped for a friend. I'm retired military and have trust issues.
I ordered Clevite H main and rod bearings through him for a few dollars less than what I could get online and gave him both sets of main bolts (ARP and factory) with caps but told him if it was more than a quick hone or reshaping the bearings, I would just go with the factory bolts rather than give him an extra $500 to bore the crank bores. Thanks for the good news on the not needing the ARP studs at this point.
He's boring to .020 over for $200, (fluxing I believe), cleaning for $100, and going to pressure test for $150. I asked about him doing an internal balance and he said $500 or $300 if I figured out the weights, which I had done. I've not agreed to that and don't really think I'm going to go that route with him. The Carillos came with a balanced weights card. The PPE Mahle's were all the same less one piston that was 1.5 grams light. From what I've found, that's about the weight of a 1/2 sheet of paper and not worth worrying about as less than 2g total weight per assembly as a whole is minimal for a diesel. Rings and pins were the same. I weighted my old LBZ piston/crank assemblies and they were all over the place, as far as 14grams difference, and all of my bearings looked really nice for the mileage. The new stuff is quite a bit lighter even with the Carillos and heavy pins by about 65g if I remember correctly.
The Mahle rings that came with the pistons are 42160-020 so we're good so long as they don't screw up the block.
The crank is getting keyed at another less confident very general fabrication shop (the first I found) and we're at 23 days now with a promised NLT Thursday of last week.
The cam is due back tomorrow with a mild grind from Shannon's now in Tacoma. I will need to get it keyed locally as well by someone skilled in the importance of precision keying.
I wasn't going to worry about the heads as the engine had great compression 380-400psi per cylinder before I disassembled it.
Thank you for the fueling pulse width information. I had no idea. The Male PPE performance piston set is .020 over and 16.5:1 for $1340 delivered to my door. I would have very much liked the higher compression ratios and genius design from Fingers 17.5:1 but was advised against going higher than 16.5:1 due to more lower end strain risk and higher head pressures. Not to mention from what I found online, I would have paid $2300-$2700 for Fingers and I'm not planning weekend trips to the drag strip.
The GT4088r bearing turbo that I purchased is probably the largest I can likely fit on the pedestal in the valley (hopefully). It claims about 700hp and that's with the standard impeller. The GTX claims 800 plus with an 11 blade so that was my thinking. The turbo falls right smack in the middle of the windshield frame on the Hummer and so it's gonna be close. I suppose I could use the 4088 as a twin and put the factory VV-3788 back in the valley? Not sure how that would work, or vice-versa?
The goal right now is to get my block, crank, and cam back in ready condition and get the thing back together and running so that I can move on to the next stage of the build. Right now I've got a lot out there and no positive forward gains and it's time for me to start reassembling the monster collection of parts if I can remember where they all go! I'll post some pics as well. Thanks for the guidance.
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Sleeved cyl
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Your machine shop is taking care of you price wise with sleeved cylinders and machine work compared to what I'm getting here in VA Beach. Looks nice and done well!
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I really can't see that charger getting you to the 700-800 mark on fuel only, and definitely would not make for a good atmosphereic charger over stock. What is your fuel system going to consist of?
What do you plan on using to get to the 800 rwhp ? NOS , what injectors , what cp3 or 3s water meth , what tuner ? I was just wondering , but I might have missed it , thanks . This will be interesting to watch , keep us posted ! Good luck !
Fuel system wise, I've made a few high priced mistakes that I think I'm going to have to live with for a couple years at least. The new gt4088r turbo and pedestal being one possible mistake. On the fuel delivery side, I have a 2016 installed CP3 reman-standard size from what I can tell, and then with a no start eBay engine and possibly having a stuck open injector, I went and dropped $2800 on new Bosch factory injectors. I have a new 165gph Airdog4g lift pump, race plug, 1/2" fuel rail inlets and 1/2" fuel pump inlet. Was going to do the 19% over "Bag of Parts" CP3 kit, but then found out that no matter how much air I'm flowing and fuel I'm pumping to the injectors, it won't matter unless I go with either larger injector nozzles, say 100% over ($2K+) or add a supplemental fuel of some sort, i.e. NO2 ($1K) or Propane ($2K). I've looked and Nitros seemed like the least costly, most healthy for the engine option although I would prefer just going with more diesel.
Any pointers on this are welcome, keeping in mind, I've got over 15K engine alone and have yet to hear it run.
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if you are assembling it and having things done at all different places, i would REALLY suggest you get yourself a bore gauge for rods, mains and piston bores so you can double check taper, out of round, clearances, and so on. i would also get a piston protursion gauge so you can see just how much clearance you have there and get the appropriate head gaskets. does the machine shop have an idea of how much protrusion you want or need for the hp you are after? did they suggest a specific piston to head clearance? things to think about for your build.
to get that turbo any where near its "max" will require a ton of fuel with high drive pressures. not ideal for piston longevity. i have also not seen that turbo make that claim of hp on a dmax. it may be a gasser hp claim you are reading. i would put that 4088 in the valley and put a twin on top of that, then run some decent sized sticks like 60-100% overs. OR since this thing is an LBZ, i would do a danville 68 in the valley and a 483 or 485 over top of it. neither will be a cheap setup but it will help get you on a safer power level if you plan to use that 800hp quite often in that heavy pig.
I've got an 07' Allison with the PPE stage 5 kit and Billet Stator triple disc torque converter in the line out of things to put together and have the 263HD manual transfer case that I've put the Merchant's saver plate into.
Mistakes , is another way of saying , I need to sell a few things to someone who needs them , and then buy the right parts . We all make mistakes , dont beat yourself up ! You have great injectors to send out to be made to your specs , 100% like you said is fine , . The air dog is fine , then get a nice new 10mm stroker . or find out what you really have ! Did you do a tank sump ? EFI live is great , if done by a pro on this site . The more fuel and air that you stated will work great ! A larger turbo when you can and a HD built trans!
It is a heavy pig and I don't expect her to float around effortlessly but the gear reduction 4x4 hubs should provide an amazing launch! Only one place is doing the block up to this point. I agree and definitely need to get a bore gauge to check the shop's work. Just got the cam back a few minutes ago and it looks nice from what I can tell. When you mention piston protrusion, I have not planed the block or heads and they both are clean and factory with the raised rings around the cylinders. I went with the C factory gaskets. and with the 16.5:1 pistons .020 over, I'm not going higher in the cylinder. As far as the protrusion, I was informed the Carillos and PPE Mahle PowerPak pistons would not cause any fitment problems. The machine shop is just boring out the cylinders with the plate on top and testing the block as of now.
As fas as the turbo and fueling, I'll put the 4088 in the valley and see how it fits and how things power up and take it from there with nozzles turbo upgrades, etc.