DIY Battery Desulfator

2004LB7

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This is a continuation of Bdsankey's thread for is race truck batteries located here: Https://www.duramaxdiesels.com/forum/threads/race-truck-battery-batteries.88346/ but I didn't really want to hijack his thread so I am making a new one. Mods, if you want to copy the relevant parts over to this thread that would be great

I have no idea how this DIY version compares to commercially made ones as I don't have or use any. I only have my own experience in it's use and it appears to do the job with restoring the cranking capability and holding a charge for longer when sitting unused.

I start with finding a 12 volts DC power supply. 1 amp SMPS (switch mode power supply) seems to be quiet common supplied with all sorts of equipment, toys, routers, etc. so these are the ones I like to use.

you can usually squeeze them around the seem to get them open. sometimes knives or saws are required. this is of course it's glued or welded together and no screws.

this is what that latest one looks like that I will build here for you
IMG_20220108_142508.jpg
often times there is extra room inside to add the necessary components.

I like to salvage my components from old used equipment. I tend to keep a few circuit boards laying around for this purpose.
IMG_20220108_122852-01.jpeg
that one was from an older projection TV. as you see, there are all sorts of goodies in here

here is what I pulled.
IMG_20220108_142332.jpg
on the left is a full bridge rectifier and the right is a polyester capacitor. if the rectifier is pulling from the input power side of the board then it is already rated for the voltage. if pulled from anywhere else you'll have to check what the rating is before use. best practice is to use one rated for at least twice the peak to peak. 400 or more volt rating is what you are looking for if you have to buy one or are looking up the specs. for the capacitor, you need to use a low ESR or series equivalent resistance one. this basically is just a rating for how much resistance the capacitor has to current flow into and out of it. it's important because to high and the capacitor will over heat. that means those electrolytic, the ones that look like little cylinders with the specs heat shrinked on are off the table. the ones you want are typically film capacitors. they come in various types but I like the polyester type as in the above photo. My brain is too full of other useless information so I can never remember how to calculate the capacity of these so I always just Google for "capacitor value calculator" and punch in the numbers. on the one above, the "225" is the capacity. the "J" is the tolerance which is not important for use and the "250" is voltage rating. you'll often find ones with a voltage rating of 1.2k or 1.5k or similar. probably not worth using these as there capacity is much too low to be of any interest. the highest capacity one you can fit in your power supply and still get it back together is what you want to accomplish.

rule of thumb for this type of circuit is 25 uF used at 120 volts will pass 1 amp of charging current. Ideally you want at least as much current to counteract the self discharge rate of the battery. a standard lead acid battery of decent health may be in the 20 mA range. this would require at least a 1/2 uF capacitor but normally we are trying to use desulfators on less then healthy batteries so get as much as you can inside the case. the one I am using above is a 2.2uF which should push through about 88 mA. not great but not bad
 
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2004LB7

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this is the circuit you are wanting to build
IMG_20220104_115551.jpg
5 or 10uF would be more ideal but you may not be able to fit that inside the power supply case.

here is how I fit mine. a little bit of hot glue or super glue to hold them in place.
IMG_20220108_145047.jpg

and soldered to the board. I had a convenient place to drill a hole for the wires. most of the time you have to be more creative to attach the wires
IMG_20220108_144707.jpg

super glue is excellent for putting these welded ones back together.

I like to add a little connector on the vehicle attached to the battery so I can plug it in without having to open the hood. also if you forget to unplug it before driving away it will just pull out of the connector with no damage
IMG_20220108_152453.jpg
this one that we built together today I installed on my mother's car. it typically won't start if it sits unused for several days as the battery is getting old. now we see if it helps. (yes yes I know the battery needs cleaning).

how this maintainer desulfator works is the 12 volt supply keeps the voltage of the battery from dropping below 12 volts. then the capacitor rectifier addition supplies a constant current limited buy the capacity of the capacitor. then the rectifier converts the A/C to DC. but without a smoothing capacitor it is supplying a 120 Hz pulse which is supposed to do the work of breaking down the sulfates thus restoring capacity. Don't forget to label the new modified power supply well so it doesn't accidentally get used for anything else as the high voltage pulses will likely destroy electronics or other devices without a large battery to sink the current
 
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PureHybrid

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So can you modify a battery tender Jr to desulfate? I haven't messed with this realm of electronics since school, I'd have to study up first
 

2004LB7

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So can you modify a battery tender Jr to desulfate? I haven't messed with this realm of electronics since school, I'd have to study up first
without destroying or disabling the internal circuit that controls the charge cycle the tender does I would say no. if you wanted to remove that then yes it is but at that point why? you would be better off just using another 12v power adapter for far cheaper. and because some of those tenders use alligator clips the risk of shock is real. the desulfater circuit is a constant current supply with a voltage range up to about 170 volts when no load is applied. the voltage will keep going up (until it maxes out on voltage) until it reaches the current of the capacitor value. what this means is if the tender was plugged in but not attached to the battery the desulfater would be sending 170 volt pulses into the tenders battery voltage sensor and likely damaging it. the reason this is fine for a regular 12 volt adapter is they employ a rectifier on the output stage of the supply so no backfeeding into the supply can happen. the tender by it nature has to be able to sense the voltage of the battery so it has the ability to receive current and get damaged. I would not use it for this modification
 
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PureHybrid

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without destroying or disabling the internal circuit that controls the charge cycle the tender does I would say no. if you wanted to remove that then yes it is but at that point why? you would be better off just using another 12v power adapter for far cheaper. and because some of those tenders use alligator clips the risk of shock is real. the desulfater circuit is a constant current supply with a voltage range up to about 170 volts when no load is applied. the voltage will keep going up (until it maxes out on voltage) until it reaches the current of the capacitor value. what this means is if the tender was plugged in but not attached to the battery the desulfater would be sending 170 volt pulses into the tenders battery voltage sensor and likely damaging it. the reason this is fine for a regular 12 volt adapter is they employ a rectifier on the output stage of the supply so no backfeeding into the supply can happen. the tender by it nature has to be able to sense the voltage of the battery so it has the ability to receive current and get damaged. I would not use it for this modification
Was more or less considering the tender unit because I have a few toys with the battery adapters installed already, it's an older Deltran that I've got my money's worth out of, and I actually have another available to keep as a tender. Just an idea, as I have a few old batteries laying around. Does this process work on AGM batteries?
 

2004LB7

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Was more or less considering the tender unit because I have a few toys with the battery adapters installed already, it's an older Deltran that I've got my money's worth out of, and I actually have another available to keep as a tender. Just an idea, as I have a few old batteries laying around. Does this process work on AGM batteries?
it should work on all lead acid batteries but gel cells will require the least amount of current. infact higher current can cause gas bubbles to form along the plates reducing the capacity just as bad as sulfate. and once formed those gas bubbles are hard to get rid of. it's like trying to get rid of bubbles in Jello. AGM also can work at lower current but can tolerate higher current too. flooded almost always requires higher current. now higher or lower current we are talking in the range of 20 mA to 100 mA or so. as far as I know there is no hard rules. I try and fit the largest capacitor I can in the case for as much current as I can get. the one above was 88 mA but one I made for my grandmother's car I think was only 20 mA or so and it seems to work

I've several built that are just the pulse chargers that output about 250 mAs, another that does 3 amps and a large one that does about 10 amps. I don't like to use the largest one much because the power factor is really bad. to the power company the current the pulse charger is putting out is also the amount the electrical meter will read. so my 10 amp charger also draws 10 amps from the mains. not a bit deal when it's only 40 mA
 

turbo_bu

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This is probably a dumb question, but I found an old battery charger (12 V, 1 amp) which when I opened it up only had a transformer and a resistor inside. I'm guessing that this would not work for what you have shown??? It also makes me wonder if since it is just a simple transformer, if it would have a high amount of ripple which I think is what your doing with your circuit?
 

2004LB7

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This is probably a dumb question, but I found an old battery charger (12 V, 1 amp) which when I opened it up only had a transformer and a resistor inside. I'm guessing that this would not work for what you have shown??? It also makes me wonder if since it is just a simple transformer, if it would have a high amount of ripple which I think is what your doing with your circuit?
there has got to be at least one diode in the charger. otherwise it would put out alternating current which would not change any battery and would likely burn up the charger.

the charging type wether it be switch mode or old style transformer is not really important. normally a simple charger like that will not have the voltage, despite any "ripple" or otherwise it won't be high enough to push any meaningful current through the battery.

what the add on circuit is, is a constant current source which depending on the size of the capacitor used will push 120Hz current pulses through the battery. as the battery voltage rises so does the pulse voltage. this will continue until the voltage of the battery goes up to the point that the current needed to keep it there matches the current output of the pulse charger. unlike the typical chargers the voltage is not fixed.
 

gmc502

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Ive never heard of something like this. Very cool idea.
you have an stick welder,,you can clean the battery plates w/ 100amps for 10-15 minutes.just have to make sure the battery doesn't get to hot.always wanted to try the nasa way,connect 2 batterries 1's dead and other is strong,,+ to - and _ to + for a length of time(this one I haven't tried yet)

heres a video on the stick welder method

 
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2004LB7

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you have an stick welder,,you can clean the battery plates w/ 100amps for 10-15 minutes.just have to make sure the battery doesn't get to hot.always wanted to try the nasa way,connect 2 batterries 1's dead and other is strong,,+ to - and _ to + for a length of time(this one I haven't tried yet)

heres a video on the stick welder method

only works for healthy batteries too put a quick charge on them. try it on a sulfated battery or one suffering from high internal resistance and you'll blow off chunks of lead from the plates possibly shorting the cells and definitely shortening the life. been there done that
 

gmc502

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nothing works on shorted plates,just have to monitor case temps and make sure you don't overcook it.
 

2004LB7

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nothing works on shorted plates,just have to monitor case temps and make sure you don't overcook it.
but that's just charging the battery and not desulfating it unless you count shedding plates desulfating