Disabling adaptive shift learning

[Big Block 88]

It doesn't matter if you are ok with it. A hard/firm shift in an allison is a tie up and will cause carnage or extreme accelerated wear.

I think we are getting hung up on the hard shift thing. I was stating if the shifts got firmer than im okay with it. Im just curious why the guys with the ability and brains have not found a way to fool taps. Im sure it has been tried im just curious why it didnt work, and if that can be overcome with todays software and hardware

Do you all remember when a show on powerblock years ago built the urban gorilla kit truck and put a dmax alli in it? Whe he we t out on its first test drive the shift were unbelievably harsh so much somi believe the hood came unlatched or somthing. Im "assuming" that was a tie up?

 

[DIESELMAFIAPER.LB7]

I just need 10k so I can do a 47re swap and.....:spit:

 

[02greysixer]

I've never understood why people complain about shifting problems going from regular street driving to the track. Maybe I beat on my poor truck too much, but I've never had a problem with it shifting poorly at the track because I've been daily driving it. The Allison has TAP cells for multiple throttle positions so it shouldn't adjust the full throttle shifts any regardless of how easy you drive it. The only time I've had a problem with shifting is if I change tunes and it fuels differently at part throttle or has a ton more power.

Back when I was commuting a lot with my truck I was pretty easy on it during weekdays and it would shift great at part throttle. After 700+ miles of easy driving I could treat it like crap on weekends and it clicked off wot shifts like a stock truck. That's stock defuel and almost totally unaltered 05 tcm tuning. (Only change is a slightly earlier 4-5 shift and 5th gear lockup at light throttle)

That being said my first several tunes really made me hate the adaptive shifts and the Allison in general. It felt different on every acceleration. But in the past few months I've really dialed in my tunes and it really doesn't feel much different than a bone stock truck.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

I think we are getting hung up on the hard shift thing. I was stating if the shifts got firmer than im okay with it. Im just curious why the guys with the ability and brains have not found a way to fool taps. Im sure it has been tried im just curious why it didnt work, and if that can be overcome with todays software and hardware

Do you all remember when a show on powerblock years ago built the urban gorilla kit truck and put a dmax alli in it? Whe he we t out on its first test drive the shift were unbelievably harsh so much somi believe the hood came unlatched or somthing. Im "assuming" that was a tie up?

What makes you think this stuff hasn't been tried, or is not currently done? The tables are there in EFILIVE to change the desired shift times. Also keep in mind, unless you have an 11+, your not palying with pressure per say, but you can adjust the theoretical apply pressure the TCM will command of the TRIM valves via the trim solenoids in the tuning. After a shift is complete though, the clutch packs will have the same amount of pressure to them though(wether it's 125 PSI MAX in a stock ALLISON, or line pressure with a TRANSGO kit installed).

The big thing I think most get hung up on comparing the ALLISON to other trannies like a 400 or 700, is those trannies have safety nets designed into them whereas the ALLISON doesn't. In a 700R4 style trans for example, the 1-2 shift is simply applying the 2-4 band, so there is ZERO chance of a tie up. So if you want a firm snappy shift, just make it fill the 2nd servo quicker. Or the 2-3 shift where the fluid going into apply the 3-4 direct clutch pack also forces the 1-R clutch pack off to stop any chance of tie ups. The ALLISON has NO safeties built in other than TAPS. During a shift it must select the correct shift valve positions via the shift solenoids, release one of the applied clutch packs while simultaneously applying the next clutch pack via the trim solenoids, and do so in a timely fashion as to prevent it from going to neutral, but also not do it so quickly that 3 clutch packs are on at the same time engaging the mother of all trans brakes. There are no safeties in the shift process other than the learned TAPS and shift timing to allow the TCM to know when and how to do what.

For those who don't understand why adaptive learning is so important, they need to read the ALLISON PRINCIPLES OF OPERATIONS manual. It goes into great detail describing each shift, what takes palce, all of the checks the TCM does during a shift, and what it has to do after a shift to prepare for the next shift. It would boggle your mind to see just how many stes the TCM must do for each shift.

 

[Dirtymaxx03]

I just need 10k so I can do a 47re swap and.....:spit:

This lol

 

[Big Block 88]

Ferm that is what i was looking for. And like i said my post you quoted i am sure this has been tried and maybe is being used now. Hell i know there are guys running the quarter in the same times that others gave up on the alli and went duraflight. So the alli tuning or building has gotten better over time.

Isnt the highest horse diesel right now a dmax/alli? Granted that guy is spraying the living god out of it the trans is holding.

I hope you all know im not trying to argue reason im just trying to understand

 

[chevyburnout1]

I feel like what FERM just said should be a sticky haha.

 

[Mike L.]

What makes you think this stuff hasn't been tried, or is not currently done? The tables are there in EFILIVE to change the desired shift times. Also keep in mind, unless you have an 11+, your not palying with pressure per say, but you can adjust the theoretical apply pressure the TCM will command of the TRIM valves via the trim solenoids in the tuning. After a shift is complete though, the clutch packs will have the same amount of pressure to them though(wether it's 125 PSI MAX in a stock ALLISON, or line pressure with a TRANSGO kit installed).

The big thing I think most get hung up on comparing the ALLISON to other trannies like a 400 or 700, is those trannies have safety nets designed into them whereas the ALLISON doesn't. In a 700R4 style trans for example, the 1-2 shift is simply applying the 2-4 band, so there is ZERO chance of a tie up. So if you want a firm snappy shift, just make it fill the 2nd servo quicker. Or the 2-3 shift where the fluid going into apply the 3-4 direct clutch pack also forces the 1-R clutch pack off to stop any chance of tie ups. The ALLISON has NO safeties built in other than TAPS. During a shift it must select the correct shift valve positions via the shift solenoids, release one of the applied clutch packs while simultaneously applying the next clutch pack via the trim solenoids, and do so in a timely fashion as to prevent it from going to neutral, but also not do it so quickly that 3 clutch packs are on at the same time engaging the mother of all trans brakes. There are no safeties in the shift process other than the learned TAPS and shift timing to allow the TCM to know when and how to do what.

For those who don't understand why adaptive learning is so important, they need to read the ALLISON PRINCIPLES OF OPERATIONS manual. It goes into great detail describing each shift, what takes palce, all of the checks the TCM does during a shift, and what it has to do after a shift to prepare for the next shift. It would boggle your mind to see just how many stes the TCM must do for each shift.

There are no safety nets in a 700 or 4l60 trans. High hp along with higher rpm cause the 3/4 clutch to centrefuge on during 1/2 shift and destroy the 2/4 band and 3/4 clutch. Too much cross leak between the Teflon rings on the input shaft. Transgo's answer is stronger return springs on the 3/4 clutch pack. It doesn't work.

 

[NC-smokinlmm]

Okay may be a dumb question. But why isnt there a way to make an Allison think (through tuning) that it is getting beat on constantly and it needs to apply max pressures at all times? Like a way to trick the adaptive learning into thinking the truck is being driven at or near WOT at all times even when driven easliy? I would "assume" alot of the damage occures when the trucks come from standard street driveing and then are put to the track or sled pull with the trans in easy driver mode?

Ben built a box for the lml to allow us to lock in max pressure with the flick of a switch. Im sure he could do something for the older trucks as well...

 

[Evan@InglewoodTrans]

Ben built a box for the lml to allow us to lock in max pressure with the flick of a switch. Im sure he could do something for the older trucks as well...

There was a redesign in the newer transmissions that allows that to be possible it's not going to happen on the earlier models.

 

[WolfLMM]

For a race only truck, the 47 would be ideal. I wouldn't want to daily drive a built 47.

I have a 12v Dodge with a full billet Suncoast 47. It'll knock your teeth out on every part throttle shift.

 

[duratothemax]

The ALLISON has NO safeties built in other than TAPS. During a shift it must select the correct shift valve positions via the shift solenoids, release one of the applied clutch packs while simultaneously applying the next clutch pack via the trim solenoids, and do so in a timely fashion as to prevent it from going to neutral, but also not do it so quickly that 3 clutch packs are on at the same time engaging the mother of all trans brakes. There are no safeties in the shift process other than the learned TAPS and shift timing to allow the TCM to know when and how to do what.

For those who don't understand why adaptive learning is so important, they need to read the ALLISON PRINCIPLES OF OPERATIONS manual. It goes into great detail describing each shift, what takes palce, all of the checks the TCM does during a shift, and what it has to do after a shift to prepare for the next shift. It would boggle your mind to see just how many stes the TCM must do for each shift.

Great post, couldnt have said it better myself

 

[NC-smokinlmm]

There was a redesign in the newer transmissions that allows that to be possible it's not going to happen on the earlier models.

Can you swap the VB?

 

[Mike L.]

Can you swap the VB?

No.