Info: CP3....Its insides! EXPOSED!!!

[mytmousemalibu]

That had crossed my mind too I'd hafta have it riding damn good in that bore before i bolt it up as a dual unit. More than likly not gonna work but who knows, i'd feel bad if i didn't at least try I wished that the bore could be reamed and sleeved or just bored and a bigger piston installed, but thata likly be beyond my pocketbook!

 

[Josh2002cc]

That had crossed my mind too I'd hafta have it riding damn good in that bore before i bolt it up as a dual unit. More than likly not gonna work but who knows, i'd feel bad if i didn't at least try I wished that the bore could be reamed and sleeved or just bored and a bigger piston installed, but thata likly be beyond my pocketbook!

Perhaps it is not beyond your pocket book, just something that would take a serious machinist to create. Either that or the guys who know what to do, won't post it up. But I don't think the last option is the case as two very smart guys have posted good info within this thread. Thanks Chris, Micheal and Wicked for all the info. :hello:

 

[WICKED DIESELS]

At this point in time, if a plunger or bore is damaged....The pump is junk!

This might change in the near future, time will tell!

 

[super diesel]

Shane is right. It could probably be cleaned it up and have the bore diamond polished, but it would never seal the same or even close (notice no rings for sealing and tolerances are very high). These CP3 steels have no respect for anything that is high speed steel tooling. You need to use carbide, and ceramics to do much to them. There not just case hardend either.

 

[super diesel]

But I don't think the last option is the case as two very smart guys have posted good info within this thread. Thanks Chris, Micheal and Wicked for all the info. :hello:

Thank you Josh. That's a very kind statement. Wish I knew more about them.

These pumps are very simple, neat, and efficent in there function. Glad we have em. Ultrahigh pressure diesel, and turbos. A match made in heaven. :angel:

 

[Whitetail Addict]

Thanks for the pics mouse!

After Wicked's and SD's post looks like I need to be in the market for a lift pump.

 

[mytmousemalibu]

Ya, my hopes arnt real high:rofl: I'm doin it more or less for my curiosity But i have actually made some slow progress! This Piston looks alot better too, all the heat discoloration has since gone! Its startin to work! LOL, This sucker is so shiny and smooth that oil beads up on it like water! "Even" if i get it to reciprocate i would understand the whole sealing issue, however even with leakage, it could contribute some? Im fimilure with the ringless design, my R/C engines all are ringless and rely on cylinder taper or "pinch" towards TDC, doubt that is implemented in the CP3 design

None the less, im curious and its providing me with some evenin project time

WICKED...Keep us/me posted on your "reviving dead soldiers" testing!

 

[mytmousemalibu]

Thanks for the pics mouse!

After Wicked's and SD's post looks like I need to be in the market for a lift pump.

I got my truck all stock w/ 163,000 miles on it and didn't get a lift-p till here last summer with 180ish on it now, so guess i've averted disaster so far on the stocker! And its modded too. Anything we can do to reduce strain on the CP3 is money in the bank!

 

[Whitetail Addict]

I got my truck all stock w/ 163,000 miles on it and didn't get a lift-p till here last summer with 180ish on it now, so guess i've averted disaster so far on the stocker! And its modded too. Anything we can do to reduce strain on the CP3 is money in the bank!

Mine is getting close to 96K, only tuned for about 6K. I think a lift pump may save me in the long run, I plan on keeping the truck awhile

 

[super diesel]

You can see where low lube in the fuel would cause problems too. This is why I've always run huge amounts of oils in my fuel. Lube in the diesel in different areas maybe saving some pumps out there that have high miles on them. This is what scares me about the low ppm fuels we have available now. I do anything to help with the lubricity. Injects are ridin the same boat with the CP3. The CP3 IS the heart of these diesels. Low lube for them is like super high cholestrol for humans. :help:

 

[mytmousemalibu]

You can see where low lube in the fuel would cause problems too. This is why I've always run huge amounts of oils in my fuel. Lube in the diesel in different areas maybe saving some pumps out there that have high miles on them. This is what scares me about the low ppm fuels we have available now. I do anything to help with the lubricity. Injects are ridin the same boat with the CP3. The CP3 IS the heart of these diesels. Low lube for them is like super high cholestrol for humans. :help:

Absolutly! Couldnt agree more after seein inside one! The piston/bore fit is so tight that there almost isnt any clearance, the razor thin layer of fuel they ride on is already crazy, and then our fuel is now less slippery....Uh im runnin lube in mine from now on 24/7! Wouldnt surprise me if alot of older CP3's fail because of ULSD. Wonder if the newer pumps have more clearance?

 

[LB7Diesel]

If these piston to wall clearances are so tight, then how do they compensate for heat expansion, or do they?

 

[Brayden]

I would assume that the materials chosen expand at similar rates..That's probably a reason that we have the fuel temp sensor as well, so that the ECM can give the pump a break if the temp get's too high Makes one want to think twice about maxing that table out now...

 

[LB7Diesel]

That's the only thing I could think of also, but from what I've been reading, where talking clearance of maybe 1 thousandth. I would think any metal would expand that?? Unless the two diff metals don't gauled (SP) with each other and the piston actually polishes the walls or vise versa to create a constant seal.

 

[super diesel]

Wonder if the newer pumps have more clearance?

No. Same story from the new style pumps I've checked (LBZ and newer). Theres just slightly different operation in the pump where it forces the fuel into the high pressure side.

If these piston to wall clearances are so tight, then how do they compensate for heat expansion, or do they?

It's all liquid cooled. The heat isn't that high in these. It heats up with the motor, sure. But the clearances are maintained and linear from what I can tell.

 

[SmokeShow]

when do we get super dooper billet CP3s like the Dodges get their billet sigmas???

 

[duramaxn]

That's the only thing I could think of also, but from what I've been reading, where talking clearance of maybe 1 thousandth. I would think any metal would expand that?? Unless the two diff metals don't gauled (SP) with each other and the piston actually polishes the walls or vise versa to create a constant seal.

I know exactly where the cleanance is and its in the millionths with a 1-2 RA microfinish...just checked one...

 

[mytmousemalibu]

I know exactly where the cleanance is and its in the millionths with a 1-2 RA microfinish...just checked one...

Wow! Great info! I kinda figured it was a stupid close fit, like just shy of no clearance! Upon polishing stuff last night, I had a plunger polished up so well that ANY oil or diesel i put on it would bead up like water! Ive never seen any metal do that before! I continue to be amazed by this thing

 

[McRat]

So you're going to make me measure it?

 

[super diesel]

So you're going to make me measure it?

Yes.

The thing about millionths is this. You can measure it 10 times and get 10 different measurements. Very minor temp changes (like 1 deg) effects this. The polish can be matched with a #2 diamond (yellow) polish from a good industrial supply house. The pump needs to be brought up to 180 deg on a hot plate to get the accurate dimentions and clearances (ovens can work too but you need to work fast to keep it close).