LLY: Balance Rates..

TheBac

Why do I keep doing this?
Staff member
Apr 19, 2008
15,528
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Mid Michigan
Im curious, did you test these in park (and drive) after the engine got up to operating temp or did you test them just after startup on a cold engine?


IMO, 1 and 3 are the only halfway decent ones. The rest, well......
 

CokeZero

New member
Mar 19, 2016
36
0
0
I haven't even driven the truck since I got it. I just did the GM injector cleaner and used some diesel kleen in the tank and new baldwin fuel filter, new oil change with ac delco filter. I don't even notice it smoking much at all anymore.

I think im gonna try to drive it some and see what happens and go from there.
 

THEFERMANATOR

LEGALLY INSANE
Feb 16, 2009
3,890
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ZEPHYRHILLS, FL
For starters, get it up to temp. Until you're at 170 or higher, you're pissing in the wind trying to figure it out. Second and MOST important, what is teh fuel rate when checking balance rates? Without the fuel rate, these are MEANINGLESS NUMBERS! Balance rates are how far off from the fuel rate each injector is being commanded to inject. Ideal fuel rate at a HOT idle for a stock VGT truck should be right around 9MM3 of fuel(sometimes a little higher from what I have seen). Balance rates can go from -7 to +15. -7 basically means the ECM is only commanding the pilot pulse from that injector, and no main injection. Look at your screen shots, that is what it is doing with #4. Negative balance rates mean the ECM is commanding that injector to inject LESS fuel than the average amount or fuel rate, and positive means it is commanding it to inject MORE fuel than the average/fuel rate. Negative balance rates are almost always your smokers and sources of white smoke as they are normally your leakers dribbling fuel all the time. Positive balance rates means that injector isn't flowing enough fuel, and it is commanding it to flow more because it is plugged. This is all ASSuming though that the engine is in good health as well as the wiring and fuel supply.

The BIG monkey wrench though is if your fuel rate is only say 2MM3 of fuel at idle when it should be 9. That would all of the sudden turn a balnce rate of +7 into a 0, and what you thought was a bad injector, all of the sudden becomes perfect. #4 is the one I would be looking at teh hardest, BUT this is also ASSuming your app is displaying the balance rates according to the correct cylinder number as this has been an issue that there has been no definitive answers to with scanners other than a TECH II. I would suspect a poor connection or plugged injector for a positive balnce rate, and leaking injectors for a negative.
 

CokeZero

New member
Mar 19, 2016
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Great info. I'm not sure how to check the fuel rate. Would that be the same as fuel pressure or rail pressure? Have to see if I have an option for that.
 

DAVe3283

Heavy & Slow
Sep 3, 2009
3,720
287
83
Boise, ID, USA
I don't believe Torque can show commanded fuel rate, unfortunately. You'll need a better scanner, like a FlashScan V2, a GM Tech2, or a high-end scanner.

Depending on where you are located, a member of the forum might be able to help out.
 

Chevy1925

don't know sh!t about IFS
Staff member
Oct 21, 2009
21,556
5,612
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Phoenix Az
its funny how many of these apps and scanners out there can watch balance rates but dont give the main injection rate. useless info without it.
 

CokeZero

New member
Mar 19, 2016
36
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0
Balance Rates in park










And in drive













I wrote down which ones I think should be replace in order by looking at those and i came up with this.

in park
5-3-4-6-2-7-8-1
5-3-6-4-2-7-1-8
5-4-3-6-8-2-7-1
5-4-3-6-8-2-7-1

in drive
5-4-8-6-1-7-3-2
5-4-8-6-1-3-2-7
5-4-6-8-3-1-2-7
5-4-8-6-1-3-2-7
5-4-8-6-1-3-2-7
5-4-8-6-1-3-2-7

So The order i think i will follow will be,
5 then 4 then 8 then 6 then 1 then 3 then 2 then 7
 

Awenta

Active member
Sep 28, 2014
4,090
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CT
Swap 7 and 5 and check again.

Also you're still not up to temp.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 

THEFERMANATOR

LEGALLY INSANE
Feb 16, 2009
3,890
43
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ZEPHYRHILLS, FL
Take out a 3 $100 dollar bills, now light them on fire. This is what you will be doing going off your method. Since you have an LLY, find somebody with a tech 2 to scan it as it is the ONLY proven scan tool to read an lly. 2nd, without knowing the fuel rate, you could be replacing good injectors working off of uncorrected numbers that are worthless. Know whats going on before you throw parts at it. Also with numbers varying this much, 1st thing I would do is be pulling injector plugs, cleaning the contacts, tightening the pins, and retesting.
 

CokeZero

New member
Mar 19, 2016
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0
I drove the truck 60 miles. The gauge in the truck read 170. When starting up at idle there is little to no smoke. Seems when I'm accelerating is when you see it the most. And sometimes when I came to a stop and some smoke came out there was some black along with it.

No one in my area is rich enough to afford a tech 2. If I wanted anything done with one of those it would have to be at the dealership
 

Parker_

I'm a torque addict !!
May 13, 2014
244
1
18
Blythe ca
I drove the truck 60 miles. The gauge in the truck read 170. When starting up at idle there is little to no smoke. Seems when I'm accelerating is when you see it the most. And sometimes when I came to a stop and some smoke came out there was some black along with it.

No one in my area is rich enough to afford a tech 2. If I wanted anything done with one of those it would have to be at the dealership



I'll trade u a tech 2 for that cts v2 lol


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DefiantArms

Limp Mode Cowboy
Jan 28, 2016
897
1
18
St. Augustine, FL
Not to hijack the thread but can anyone point me to some educational material on flo rates and injectors? Id like to better understand them and be able to tell if mine are good.
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