IMO its partially because there is so much research and development going into this parts still, there are lots of questions about pushing these motors harder, and for a company developing parts, it's not cheap when a new product they are testing fails. Also the quantity that the manufactures can sell is a huge part too, There is a tremendous difference in price when a company can produce and sell 10,000 parts vs. 1,000 parts.
Anything Diesel...Why So Much More???
- Thread starter duramaxdiesel
- Start date
I looked at what it cost me to build my motor and said no way. Not gonna build my engine just to go get whooped my a new 5.0 mustang with a blower, im done with the diesel performance. Probably buyin a stock 6.7 cummins
BINGO and thats is the reason in a nut shell as I and others have said! :thumb:
Small block Chevys have been around for decades that is why those parts are a dime a dozen and why just about everyone builds one . The put small block Chevys in everything from Jeeps to Fords. Why because its cheap!
I have often thought about it and to me the high prices make sense.
1. Look at what it costs to repair the duramax with stock parts.
2. The duramax has only been out since 01. The SBC has been out forever.
3. Diesel is a small market. People just simply don't own them. and most people don't buy them to.build a performance vehicle. They see them as big heavy working trucks.
4. Technology and sophistication over the SBC. The SBC has a Carb, spark plugs and bang power. Nobody is scared to build a.SBC motor and if they are, every tom dick and harry knows how to build one. The testing has all been done and its basically pick your parts. Anybody can build one. Most people look under the hood of our trucks and wouldn't know whwrre to start and don't care to.
5. Diesels are slow lol. Not really, but that's what a lot of people think. Most never even thought of modifying a diesel.
6. The parts themselves simply cost way more to make than SBC parts. Our hard parts have to hold up to much higher stresses than gas engines. Injection systems are running water jet like pressures.
7.computers. SBC has none. You don't see many people outside of diesel guys like us and the import tuner guys playing with computers. SBC people tune with hard parts, we tune with computers.
8. R&D. Companies building parts for us duramax owners know how anal we are and how much we will push everything to the limit. They also know hoe tight knit of a community we are and that if their product doesn't work, they will get flamed and their image will be ruined. We have one of the closest knit groups on the.web and know what parts work. Most people can feel pretty safe buying stuff and knowjng it will work. SBC parts are in every catalog that every person gets, it would take forever to get word out that a product was bad. Not only that, the R&D for building those older engines is done for the most part.
9. Just because. I am sure there is a little factor in the just because department. Generally if you can afford the $20,000 truck to begin with, you've got more money than the guy who bought a car with a SBC for a couple grand. Is this a form of greed? I don't think so. Most companies are immediately reinvesting their extra coin into new products.
You really do have to pay to play. Trust me. These parts are cheap compared to tractor pulling parts. Places like precision Turbo who change a little bit every year to get another 10hp so all the guys will come.buy a new $5,000-$20,000 Turbo. Or a $4,000 intercooler. The costs to build a pro stock tractor ground up new that would actually stand a chance is well over $250,000. Boyd's were selling their used rolling chassis(no motor) for $150,000.
We have often seriously contemplated buying our own CNC mill and selling pulling parts. We are thinking about starting doing it with a buddies cnc plasma he bought. All we would have to do is keep one pf each on the shelf and answer the phone, then ship the stuff when we say we will. These pulling part places are all so slow about everything and a PITA to.get a hold of.
1. Look at what it costs to repair the duramax with stock parts.
2. The duramax has only been out since 01. The SBC has been out forever.
3. Diesel is a small market. People just simply don't own them. and most people don't buy them to.build a performance vehicle. They see them as big heavy working trucks.
4. Technology and sophistication over the SBC. The SBC has a Carb, spark plugs and bang power. Nobody is scared to build a.SBC motor and if they are, every tom dick and harry knows how to build one. The testing has all been done and its basically pick your parts. Anybody can build one. Most people look under the hood of our trucks and wouldn't know whwrre to start and don't care to.
5. Diesels are slow lol. Not really, but that's what a lot of people think. Most never even thought of modifying a diesel.
6. The parts themselves simply cost way more to make than SBC parts. Our hard parts have to hold up to much higher stresses than gas engines. Injection systems are running water jet like pressures.
7.computers. SBC has none. You don't see many people outside of diesel guys like us and the import tuner guys playing with computers. SBC people tune with hard parts, we tune with computers.
8. R&D. Companies building parts for us duramax owners know how anal we are and how much we will push everything to the limit. They also know hoe tight knit of a community we are and that if their product doesn't work, they will get flamed and their image will be ruined. We have one of the closest knit groups on the.web and know what parts work. Most people can feel pretty safe buying stuff and knowjng it will work. SBC parts are in every catalog that every person gets, it would take forever to get word out that a product was bad. Not only that, the R&D for building those older engines is done for the most part.
9. Just because. I am sure there is a little factor in the just because department. Generally if you can afford the $20,000 truck to begin with, you've got more money than the guy who bought a car with a SBC for a couple grand. Is this a form of greed? I don't think so. Most companies are immediately reinvesting their extra coin into new products.
You really do have to pay to play. Trust me. These parts are cheap compared to tractor pulling parts. Places like precision Turbo who change a little bit every year to get another 10hp so all the guys will come.buy a new $5,000-$20,000 Turbo. Or a $4,000 intercooler. The costs to build a pro stock tractor ground up new that would actually stand a chance is well over $250,000. Boyd's were selling their used rolling chassis(no motor) for $150,000.
We have often seriously contemplated buying our own CNC mill and selling pulling parts. We are thinking about starting doing it with a buddies cnc plasma he bought. All we would have to do is keep one pf each on the shelf and answer the phone, then ship the stuff when we say we will. These pulling part places are all so slow about everything and a PITA to.get a hold of.
For your daily driver or a truck used to haul the trailer around, best place to call it quits is after a tune and tranny. After that it's not only a matter if but when is the motor coming out and thats where the $$$$$ start out run the amount you have coming in. I would rather enjoy all my weekends camping and riding atv/utv with the family or on many hobbies instead of one. I'm out of this diesel stuff to, no longer a spark in my list of priority's.
I still have a truck to fix, it's getting a set of LBZ rods if the stockers are bent & studs to handle what what I hurt already (blown head gaskets).
I still have a truck to fix, it's getting a set of LBZ rods if the stockers are bent & studs to handle what what I hurt already (blown head gaskets).
On the flip side of this look how cheap it is to get to 500 RWHP in these trucks. Try that with a SBC. Transmission aside less then $500 bucks today!
Even putting it to the ground doing a Allison shade tree your less then $4000 grand! Can't beat that
Even putting it to the ground doing a Allison shade tree your less then $4000 grand! Can't beat that
Very true. I always laugh at the powerblock shows when they get so excited to make 400hp after the replace every part with something better.
Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2
Diesel Pick up Hot Rodding has only been around really since 1998 with the 12v being fitted into a Dodge. Since for comparison were using the SBC which has been out since what 1960's I guess.
So I guess by my math in 2050 these parts for diesel hot rodding will be a dime a dozen!
The other thing is manufacturing changes thru model years will throw some curve balls in. The basic SBC core is relatively the same ,kind off well at least for MANY years it was, will we be able to say that with the Duramax? I highly doubt it. I believe it wont be long and that displacement wont even exist in probably 5 years.
So it will become obsolete so how much additional R&D will be done who knows. Just like the tuning development of LB7s, LLY's so on and the reason why the Power Loader 3 never came to market! Or is it still in development ? :roflmao:
So I guess by my math in 2050 these parts for diesel hot rodding will be a dime a dozen!
The other thing is manufacturing changes thru model years will throw some curve balls in. The basic SBC core is relatively the same ,kind off well at least for MANY years it was, will we be able to say that with the Duramax? I highly doubt it. I believe it wont be long and that displacement wont even exist in probably 5 years.
So it will become obsolete so how much additional R&D will be done who knows. Just like the tuning development of LB7s, LLY's so on and the reason why the Power Loader 3 never came to market! Or is it still in development ? :roflmao:
400hp in a 3300lbs car moves faster than a truck with 500hp and 7000lbs anyday though
Diesels will never be cheap and probably never main stream look at how far the LS engines have come in about the same amount of time, don't know that ill ever build my duramax because of the cost, the 12v is a better option for me especially since its in a Chevy hot prodding something with a LS transplant would be even better cost to performance wise but most of us aren't into diesel trucks for the economical factors.
Been considering yanking the BBC from my boat and building a hot gas puller. Something like a 72' RC LB DRW. Chevy of course. A few valve train parts and 8000rpms here we go. :woott:
As far as diesel prices being high, I believe the fact that there are no Chinese companies making cheap knock off imitation parts for our trucks like there are for gassers may have some affect.
I'm pretty satisfied with fact that I bought my first dmax with almost 200,000 miles on the clock (mostly towing a goosneck I'm assuming). Then with just a little research and the help of this forum (all of you) I knew all it would take is a tune, lift pump, exhaust and a few simple mods to make the 7000+ go damn near sub 13's at the strip. Not bad at all. Of course I'm ready to build the Trans add some fuel and turn the wick up to try for 11's however the only engine build in my future would be the lml short block if it proves to be tougher than previous. :thumb:
As far as diesel prices being high, I believe the fact that there are no Chinese companies making cheap knock off imitation parts for our trucks like there are for gassers may have some affect.
I'm pretty satisfied with fact that I bought my first dmax with almost 200,000 miles on the clock (mostly towing a goosneck I'm assuming). Then with just a little research and the help of this forum (all of you) I knew all it would take is a tune, lift pump, exhaust and a few simple mods to make the 7000+ go damn near sub 13's at the strip. Not bad at all. Of course I'm ready to build the Trans add some fuel and turn the wick up to try for 11's however the only engine build in my future would be the lml short block if it proves to be tougher than previous. :thumb:
I think its because diesel trucks are one of the hottest things on the market now.. so they can get more money outta thier parts... its kinda like when i was in high school... the inport tuner cars were really big... and parts to build those where high dollor then ... now they are alot cheaper....
GMC_2002_Dmax
The Still Master
I just looked online at vettehound, you can buy a 2006+C6 vette, low miles, modded for between $32K-$50K come are supercharged, a Calloway is available.........for what a fully built motor/trans/etc.
I have two stock motor trucks for that reason, 500 RWHP is fine for my DD and I have rode in too many 800-1000 RWHP trucks to count tuning them.
I do agree with the others here, small market, lots of R&D, lots of costs to recoup, takes years and years and years to break even on some parts, then the copy cats come in and whore the price out.
Anyone remember the Duramaxtuner Rod fiasco ??? :roflmao:
I have two stock motor trucks for that reason, 500 RWHP is fine for my DD and I have rode in too many 800-1000 RWHP trucks to count tuning them.
I do agree with the others here, small market, lots of R&D, lots of costs to recoup, takes years and years and years to break even on some parts, then the copy cats come in and whore the price out.
Anyone remember the Duramaxtuner Rod fiasco ??? :roflmao:
Was pricing VW Tiguans the other day. Diesel is 3,200 option.
While not as true anymore, diesels used to always come with a higher trim level as well on European cars.
While not as true anymore, diesels used to always come with a higher trim level as well on European cars.
Haha now you spilled the beans. How to drive numerous 800+hp single/twin/and triple turbo built Duramax's you ask??? Not only for free but get paid to do so??
Embrace your inner tuna. :woott:
The magic will occur when somebody figures out how to make peak power at 6000+.
The stock rods will only be dealing with the same load as they would with a 500HP tune-only truck, but you will have 1500HP.
Problem? The heat of vaporization of diesel makes it difficult. The faster you spin, the faster the fuel must vaporize. Liquids don't burn, only gases. The faster the fuel vaporizes, the colder the air charge becomes. The air charge temp must be high to vaporize the fuel, and initialize combustion. It's a Catch-22. The Audi race diesels aren't making peak power higher than 6000 last I read.
The only way to pull off the trick will be to have injectors that spray gaseous diesel instead of a liquid. Since current injector design uses liquid diesel to lubricate the parts, it would have to be a whole new kind of technology. Pilot injection helps (keeps air temp up), but it can only do so much.
Oh, and the entire head design is for a 3200rpm target. You'd really want a lot more flow. Think Hayabusa or Cobalt heads. Straight shot ports.
The stock rods will only be dealing with the same load as they would with a 500HP tune-only truck, but you will have 1500HP.
Problem? The heat of vaporization of diesel makes it difficult. The faster you spin, the faster the fuel must vaporize. Liquids don't burn, only gases. The faster the fuel vaporizes, the colder the air charge becomes. The air charge temp must be high to vaporize the fuel, and initialize combustion. It's a Catch-22. The Audi race diesels aren't making peak power higher than 6000 last I read.
The only way to pull off the trick will be to have injectors that spray gaseous diesel instead of a liquid. Since current injector design uses liquid diesel to lubricate the parts, it would have to be a whole new kind of technology. Pilot injection helps (keeps air temp up), but it can only do so much.
Oh, and the entire head design is for a 3200rpm target. You'd really want a lot more flow. Think Hayabusa or Cobalt heads. Straight shot ports.
I wonder if it's possible to atomize the fuel before it is ready to be injected. Wouldn't nitrous help the burn in super high rpm apps?
Welcome to my world to those disallusioned with diesel. That's why I have a 77 K10 now that cost less than a set of a duramax rods with a brand new crate motor and indestructable 4 speed. It isn't the prettiest but it gets the job done and I'm saving a TON of money monthly and MUCH happier with life overall. Your mileage may vary.
I bought my truck on the sole basis that I wouldn't know how to mod a diesel internally wise. :rofl:
6.0/5.3 motors are too easy/tempting to throw a cam in, and 60e/80es are cheap and easy to work on. I knew I wouldn't be able to resist making the daily driver into a lousy daily driver. Diesel truck with a little tune and some bolt ons, still maintains awesome drivabilty and is decently quick.
I think I built the current bullet for the camaro for under 5 grand? And thats a fully forged, EFI motor.
6.0/5.3 motors are too easy/tempting to throw a cam in, and 60e/80es are cheap and easy to work on. I knew I wouldn't be able to resist making the daily driver into a lousy daily driver. Diesel truck with a little tune and some bolt ons, still maintains awesome drivabilty and is decently quick.
I think I built the current bullet for the camaro for under 5 grand? And thats a fully forged, EFI motor.