Any Electrical Engineers here?

Cougar281

Well-known member
Sep 11, 2006
1,830
268
83
St Louis, MO
Ok, here's the deal. AmerenUE is raping us again. The first year my wife and I owned our home, our power usage didn't fluctuate much for the entire year, except for the first August when we left the HVAC blower "ON" instead of set to "Auto" :rolleyes:; That was the first time the usage went up to 2000 units. Our normal usage is typically between 1300 and 1800. This month's bill, they claim we used a bit over 2700 units. :WTF2:

The thing is, NOTHING'S changed significantly since about the third month we owned the house. On a typical day, A/C, two servers and a disk array (the entire rack draws about 12A according to my UPS’s), two desktop PCs, 10 gallon Fish tank, fridge and one small chest freezer are all that's running, with sporadic TV and light usage (almost all lights are CFL's). All of this has been in the house and running since the second or third month we lived here. This summer hasn’t been significantly warmer than the 2007 or 2008 summers, in fact it seems like it may be a little milder.

Now that you have the "Novel" background, here's the question: Our meter is rated for 240V. Ameren has been pushing line voltages up to and exceeding 250V. This has been a problem elsewhere in the area where their transformers are pushing even higher voltages causing 220V motors to burn out prematurely. Will pushing higher line voltages than the meter is rated for cause erroneous usage readings? In theory, I would think it could, as with the motors that are burning out, the higher voltages are causing them to turn faster, so I would think the same could apply to a meter; If X watts at 240V is going to make the meter spin at Y speed, then the same load at 250V could make the meter spin faster, thinking that the customer is using more power than they really are. Or am I way off track?
 

Brian1

New member
Jan 1, 2008
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Watts = Amps x Volts. But as Volts goes up the Amps required goes down to maintain same watts. I just bas this on motors use in the field. They are plated as example at 110volt 20 amp draw, 220 volt at 10 amp draw, and 440volt at 5 amp draw. At any rate it should not matter for watts which is what they record will always be the same across all voltages.

Yes pushing more volts than needed will cause equipment to burn out permaturely. I have only seen this done in the electrical field where they install a monitor that records the data to a paper disc. How about contacting them electric company and ask about them installing a device like this to monitor because you are have applicances go bad. It should not cost you a dime for them to do this. They should be required to provide good stable voltage and current within a certain spec level. But sure there will be spikes. Also note weather during the time it is up.

Now lets consider the computer server setup. Here is the use.
12amps times 110volt = 1320 Watts per hour.
Now the electric company monitors Kilo watts per hour. So that is 1.32 kilowatts per hour.
So if it runs 24/7 and average 30 days a month then
1.32kW times 24hours times 30days = 950.4 kW per month.

I was thinking most these days offers things to save electric. Like they can add a device to your outside condensor A/C unit to turn it off for 15 minutes at a time to try to balance the electrical grid and to help make best use of the power they buy. Electricity is not stored and used later very much.

About all I can help with since just a Steamfitter.

Brian
 
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Fingers

Village Idiot
Vendor/Sponsor
Apr 1, 2008
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White Oak, PA
Running the meter at greater voltages than name plated does not impact the accuracy significantly. It is the voltage rating for the insulation and windings...

Check that you are loading the two legs of the 220 equally. Significant imbalances will impact your meter in the company's favor.
 

Cougar281

Well-known member
Sep 11, 2006
1,830
268
83
St Louis, MO
Running the meter at greater voltages than name plated does not impact the accuracy significantly. It is the voltage rating for the insulation and windings...

Check that you are loading the two legs of the 220 equally. Significant imbalances will impact your meter in the company's favor.

I'll check that; it should be reasonably close to even, as the largest load is the A/C, which obviously is 220, next largest continus load would be the servers, which are balanced between two Liebert UPS's, each of which is on a seperate leg. After that would be the fridge and freezer.
 

z79outlaw

Member
Apr 20, 2007
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Salem WI
If the higher voltages are causing you any problems file a complaint. They are legally required to provide 5% on either side of 120/240. Do you have meter readers? Or AMR's? Automatic Meter Readers have been known to be messed up or off calibration. Tell them you want it looked into if thats the case. If you have a meter reader, some utilities to cut back on costs dont send them out monthly but bi-monthly or every 3rd month, etc. Anyways for the months that they dont stop out they have an estimated charge, and depending how close there or off there estimated charge was you'll see it on the next months bill.
 

zstroken

New member
Jul 31, 2008
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AC motors pretty much spin speeds that are directly proportional to frequency.
I would check for something that is left on, maybe a refridgerator that is not cooling properly, do you have a well? Did you have a toilet stick, etc, etc.
 

Fingers

Village Idiot
Vendor/Sponsor
Apr 1, 2008
1,719
104
63
White Oak, PA
If the higher voltages are causing you any problems file a complaint. They are legally required to provide 5% on either side of 120/240. Do you have meter readers? Or AMR's? Automatic Meter Readers have been known to be messed up or off calibration. Tell them you want it looked into if thats the case. If you have a meter reader, some utilities to cut back on costs dont send them out monthly but bi-monthly or every 3rd month, etc. Anyways for the months that they dont stop out they have an estimated charge, and depending how close there or off there estimated charge was you'll see it on the next months bill.


That varies with PUC and State to State. Liability is limited here.

Higher voltages are cheaper for the Utility and you, provided you can handle them.

Still remember my buddy running his dishwasher on 220 because he wired it wrong. Cleanest dishes you could get, till it burned up...
:)
 
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