air/water intercooler.

[chrisuns]

Well, I'm in the middle of my LB7-LBZ conversion. Instead of buying a new core support and using the LBZ rad and intercooler, I was thinking of using the LB7 rad and dumping the intercooler for a air to water.

Few questions, 1. Any tips, 2. What's the CFM of a stock turbo and a 4094AVNT, 3. Whats the intake temps like after the cooler on the factory intercooler? 4. Is a bigger air/water intercooler better(May get twins in the near future.)

Planning on running a frame mounted radiator with fans for city driving and a radiator mounted in the grille for city. Just not sure what size water/air cooler to buy and where to mount it. I don't want to buy the wrong one and end up with higher intake temps than the factory intercooler. It's more or less for a cool factor/project/efficiency I want to try.

If it matters the truck will never make more than 650RWHP. Sorry for 21 questions, I've read as much as I can in books about this and just want some insight from people with actual experience in this field.

Let me know of all your opinions.

 

[ChevyDieselLLY]

I wouldn't put an air/water in a truck unless it was a race only truck. BD makes a good intercooler...

 

[chrisuns]

I wouldn't put an air/water in a truck unless it was a race only truck. BD makes a good intercooler...

What's you're reasoning behind that? Just curious, looking for some insight.

 

[ChevyDieselLLY]

I have no information to back up what I said. Just doesn't seem practical to do on a DD. I know water cools better. But for the work it will take I don't see any benifit. Look at trucks like max'd out and Bucks truck as far as I know they still have an intercool

 

[Turbo Performance]

From what I've seen, factory air/air intercoolers do a pretty good job. I think you'd be hard pressed to get intake charge temps anything higher than 40+ degrees above ambient, measuring post intercooler. Less with an aftermarket intercooler.

Personally I would only go to an air/water if intake charge temps were getting out of hand with an air/air or you were on the hunt for the extra power gain from lower intake charge temps. The added weight of the system is more than likely going to offset any lower intake temps on your setup. Especially where it's a DD and you're not filling it with ice water for pulling/racing. Your truck though, do what makes you happy.

 

[chrisuns]

From what I've seen, factory air/air intercoolers do a pretty good job. I think you'd be hard pressed to get intake charge temps anything higher than 40+ degrees above ambient, measuring post intercooler. Less with an aftermarket intercooler.

Personally I would only go to an air/water if intake charge temps were getting out of hand with an air/air or you were on the hunt for the extra power gain from lower intake charge temps. The added weight of the system is more than likely going to offset any lower intake temps on your setup. Especially where it's a DD and you're not filling it with ice water for pulling/racing. Your truck though, do what makes you happy.

Makes sense though, I was kind of thinking of it for a under 45mph aspect where I know a2a don't shine very well. Specially with the stop and go I run into every day :/. I know A2A are better at 65+(Usually)

 

[KEVINL]

you need a heat exchanger in air to water that is cooled by what? air

Water can remove more heat than air but the problem is keeping the water cool you still have to use air to remove the heat from the water.

A air to air still radiating the heat to the outside at low speeds it is just much more effective when it is being forced and the engine fan will do that if the clutch is engaged.

The reason they are so popular for racing is you can have the water really cold just not for extended periods like in a truck that is driven on the street

 

[Colt]

Thought I just read the new Ford diesels have air/water standard issue equipment on those so it must be a coming feature for GM and Dodge if Ford uses it and proof shows it helps cool IAT. Take all the emmissions stuff off the Ford and then see what the readings are would be my guess. They have twins for turbos too and it looks like the new way to do it even on a daily driven truck maybe. It's a setup to consider if you pull alot wouldn't you think? The cost is where it will stop alot of guys who want it done maybe.

 

[GeneralTJI]

If you do an air/water on a DD'er, you may want to look into using a radiator core up front you can pump the heated fluid through. Otherwise the system will get head soaked. Problem is figuring out how big of a cooler is needed with the amount of fluid in the system and the amount of heat the turbo is introducing.

I can see it working, but there may be some trial and error

 

[Turbo Performance]

you need a heat exchanger in air to water that is cooled by what? air

Water can remove more heat than air but the problem is keeping the water cool you still have to use air to remove the heat from the water.

A air to air still radiating the heat to the outside at low speeds it is just much more effective when it is being forced and the engine fan will do that if the clutch is engaged.

The reason they are so popular for racing is you can have the water really cold just not for extended periods like in a truck that is driven on the street

I agree. I doubt the advantages of an air/water at low speeds is worth it to build/design the whole setup.

Thought I just read the new Ford diesels have air/water standard issue equipment on those so it must be a coming feature for GM and Dodge if Ford uses it and proof shows it helps cool IAT. Take all the emmissions stuff off the Ford and then see what the readings are would be my guess. They have twins for turbos too and it looks like the new way to do it even on a daily driven truck maybe. It's a setup to consider if you pull alot wouldn't you think? The cost is where it will stop alot of guys who want it done maybe.

Just because Ford did a factory water/air doesn't mean Chevy and Dodge will follow suit. I also think Ford probably did a separate air/water setup for reasons other than intake charge temps. Keeping an air/air out of the front stack would definitely benefit engine cooling too, especially while towing and lower speed driving.

 

[bullfrogjohnson]

I know in a sled pulling application you can burn over 40lbs of ice in 300ft. I think you would be miles ahead if you bought a used lbz cooler and support. It will be less headache and most likely cheaperthan a good a2w and a good heat exchanger setup.

 

[chrisuns]

I was thinking more along the lines of 1 radiator in the front and one under the truck where the spare tire would normally go. Kind of had the idea of taking a tahoe rear ac system and pumping it into the reserve tank :woott:

 

[chrisuns]

I know in a sled pulling application you can burn over 40lbs of ice in 300ft. I think you would be miles ahead if you bought a used lbz cooler and support. It will be less headache and most likely cheaperthan a good a2w and a good heat exchanger setup.

Not to concerned about cost at this point. Whole truck is a project really. Figure whats 15k in parts compared to the 64k truck I was going to buy last year? Just if I do this I want it to work.

Here's what I'm thinking if I move along with this. A2w intercooler in place of the driver side battery. Relocate batter to a battery box on the passenger side(About where a def tank normally sits). Egr delete tube similar to the allseason's unit but facing the driver side sitting right above the upper radiator hose. Relocated a new windshield fluid tank to the inter frame rails. 30x7x3.5 radiator for the a2w sitting in behind my ss bumber lower grille mesh. A secondary taurus radiator along with its fans in place of the spare. Then thinking about routing a tahoes rear ac system into the reserve box for the coils are sitting in the coolant.

Am I crazy or what? Like I said just a project that I think would be cool lol.

 

[ChevyDieselLLY]

i guess go for it and let us know how it turns out. but if you got money to spend you can send me some i do paypal:hug:

if it wasnt for people like you and many of the other on this forum this sport wouldnt be where it is now. so i hope this does work

 

[chrisuns]

Cool thing would be to use a liquid metal coolant(one with a very low melting point) only problem is the type of metals that melt at a low enough temp are either very toxic/expensive/hard to refine. =) Oh ideas!

 

[Cbum]

Not to concerned about cost at this point. Whole truck is a project really. Figure whats 15k in parts compared to the 64k truck I was going to buy last year? Just if I do this I want it to work.

Here's what I'm thinking if I move along with this. A2w intercooler in place of the driver side battery. Relocate batter to a battery box on the passenger side(About where a def tank normally sits). Egr delete tube similar to the allseason's unit but facing the driver side sitting right above the upper radiator hose. Relocated a new windshield fluid tank to the inter frame rails. 30x7x3.5 radiator for the a2w sitting in behind my ss bumber lower grille mesh. A secondary taurus radiator along with its fans in place of the spare. Then thinking about routing a tahoes rear ac system into the reserve box for the coils are sitting in the coolant.

Am I crazy or what? Like I said just a project that I think would be cool lol.

I will most likely doing and air to water with my Frankenstein build once I get back to work . And thought about using secondary hvac to help cool coolant till I realized there is no such thing as a free ride . I would use more hp cooling coolant than I would get back . I know every time we change one form of energy to another there is a loss of efficiency.But I keep toying with the idea as an intermitant supplemental chiller . The reason I feel the need to go to a2w is because of packageing as well . I don't think I will have enough room nor enough airflow due to the fact I am doing a Elky rather than a full size truck and will being going with electric fans .


I am no expert by any means and need to figure system size . Also trying to figure what water pump to use . Most that I have seen use a small electric pump used in rv's but I am worried about there duty cycle on long trips . I am considering using a mechanical driven Jabsco pump such as used on old Detroit Diesels that used raw water to cool the engine coolant intercooler .

Don't let my ramblings discourage you I am trying to figure this out as I go .

 

[chrisuns]

I'm going to use 2 bosch pumps from a mustang cobra. One 100% duty and the other a secondary in case the first one ever dies on a road trip. I'll make a controller for it so if it looses pressure the system will realize it and automatically turn the secondary on and illuminate a warning led by the hook latch. Here's a link http://www.frozenboost.com/product_...=1001&osCsid=4695ae6696353977086b5f3c9e0a4873