600-650HP LBZ Build - Misc Questions - I'm a Virgin!

[juddski88]

I don't know that I'd do Fingers pistons at 650 HP. I'm at 660 HP on Mahle cast and no issues. I've heard more than one person lament the smokey nature and efficiency of the Fingers bowl design for towing. It holds power great, but the trade-off seems to be fuel economy and haze at all times.

I have no first hand experience with them, but wanted to put the counterpoint out there to make your decision harder

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They definitely are not an efficient design.

 

[zakkb787]

If 650 is your goal, I’d recommend cut lb7 pistons, BC or Wagler budget rods, 60 overs, and a 10mm pump, with one of Marks turbos. May not need the 68stg2r but something similar. Have it balanced and let her eat. 10k isn’t much of a budget for a full build even if it is budget for these trucks. You’ll have close to 7 grand in just rods, turbo, and injectors, not counting pump or pistons.

 

[Burn Down]

I don’t notice much haze and I’m running 30 over ii injectors and fingers in the 05’. Very few are satisfied with 600 and a built eng. I’d rather over build the bottom and not worry about it...

 

[Rooftop Special]

If you think your going to be at 10g already. Why not look into a short block? Waglers entry level is 9800 I believe. Or buy the rotating assembly for 5200. When my day comes that’s what I’ll be looking at and adding a girdle and af cam. Overkill for 750rwhp goal? probably but I like peace of mind. Do it once and do it right.


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Thought about it but that's just for a short block. No heads, assemble, etc. and would only leave $200 bucks.


So between delipped LB7 and Mahle pistons are they typically thought to hold the same HP? I thought 600-650HP was the max for delipped LB7 pistons? I'd like to leave some buffer if possible. I know these are heavy trucks and if you want MPG get a Prius but I'd hate to do Fingers just to see a dip in MPG when both Fingers and Mahle pistons would foot the bill?


I've heard one "nay" on the balancer. What's the advantage of these aftermarket balances if I'm having the engine balanced?


Thanks guys,


Casey

 

[DAVe3283]

Mostly the aftermarket balancers are press fit, where stock is slip fit. Press fit balancers are less likely to spin on the crank, though a bigger key helps with a slip fit.

I've spun enough slip-fit balancers that I won't run them. Even my stock LB7 has a press fit balancer.

But most people never have the problems I have with them spinning on the crank, so maybe you get lucky, or maybe the larger key holds it in place?

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[Burn Down]

Lol, 10k is going to be gone quickly, spend your money wisely. I’m not going to get into a debate over recommendations. I know what I have works and many others have ran with great success.

 

[N2BRK]

I'm certainly not a professional, but I've been pleased with my combination of the Fluidampr and Empire roll pin kit to add the additional pinning to factory.

 

[Rooftop Special]

Lol, 10k is going to be gone quickly, spend your money wisely. I’m not going to get into a debate over recommendations. I know what I have works and many others have ran with great success.

I probably should have been more clear in my opening. I simply want to make sure I'm building the engine itself (the internals) to reliably handle 650hp and get the truck back on the road. Later on when I seek the 650hp I hope to focus on externals such as turbo, injectors, etc.


I know I can overbuild and quickly blow 10 g's. I know if I was after 700HP it seems to be a whole other level of spending. It's sort of why I landed on 600-650HP.


For right now I think I'll have enough for the engine, replace the bad injector if indeed that was a contributing factor, and hopefully get efiLve with a tow tune.


Should I invest in a V2 so I can log and monitor?

 

[TheBac]

600/650 still requires the same build strategy that 700+ would. Those that brag of 650 on stock internals are the exception, nor the rule. Since you plan to tow heavy, you must treat your build like you would a higher hp build, anyway.

 

[Rooftop Special]

600/650 still requires the same build strategy that 700+ would. Those that brag of 650 on stock internals are the exception, nor the rule. Since you plan to tow heavy, you must treat your build like you would a higher hp build, anyway.

I know it's hard to draw a line in the sink and say you need this, this, and this for 650 and this for 700 but can we agree I don't need to consider a crank and AF cam?


I'd like to at least eliminate those items

 

[Chevy1925]

I know it's hard to draw a line in the sink and say you need this, this, and this for 650 and this for 700 but can we agree I don't need to consider a crank and AF cam?


I'd like to at least eliminate those items

Nope, there is no hp point that the stock crank won’t break. If you want to make damn sure it’s never an issue, put a Callie’s narrowed rod journal crank and put it in. Some cranks will last some won’t. Mine has 215k on it total and 55k were on this built engine. Still no issues but doesn’t mean I can break on my drive home. I will be pulling this motor in the near future for a piston change and crank change. I like no worries lol

 

[Rooftop Special]

Nope, there is no hp point that the stock crank won’t break. If you want to make damn sure it’s never an issue, put a Callie’s narrowed rod journal crank and put it in. Some cranks will last some won’t. Mine has 215k on it total and 55k were on this built engine. Still no issues but doesn’t mean I can break on my drive home. I will be pulling this motor in the near future for a piston change and crank change. I like no worries lol

Lol. You guys are no help!


This place reminds me of my gun or harley forum! The wife unit already banned me from those and if she catches wind I'm over here I'm finished!

 

[DAVe3283]

This is not a forum for the faint of wallet! We'll spend every penny you have, if you let us.

I didn't put a crank or AF cam in my truck. Crank has 330k on it now. 200k at about 350 HP, 70k at 425 HP, and 60k so far at 660 HP. I am probably one of the lucky ones, but I do know in the back of my mind that it could just let go for no reason.

Unlike James, though, I'll wait for it to break before I fix it

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[gmduramax]

Just make sure your rotating assembly is balanced properly and your crank should be fine. An AF cam probably will help, but I don’t have one.

 

[Chevy1925]

This is not a forum for the faint of wallet! We'll spend every penny you have, if you let us.

I didn't put a crank or AF cam in my truck. Crank has 330k on it now. 200k at about 350 HP, 70k at 425 HP, and 60k so far at 660 HP. I am probably one of the lucky ones, but I do know in the back of my mind that it could just let go for no reason.

Unlike James, though, I'll wait for it to break before I fix it

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Ha! I just don’t wanna hurt the block!


OP, who are you using for machine work here?

 

[Rooftop Special]

Ha! I just don’t wanna hurt the block!


OP, who are you using for machine work here?

Larry's in Tucson. Another member here pointed me in their direction.

 

[Chevy1925]

Larry's in Tucson. Another member here pointed me in their direction.

Goooooood. Larry does all the ones I build.

 

[Rooftop Special]

Goooooood. Larry does all the ones I build.

Very cool. Finding them was the deciding factor in me doing the install myself vs going to a shop.

 

[JoshH]

If I was building this for you, here is what I would do:

Mahle Motorsports racecast pistons
Stock LBZ rods
Stock crank and cam keyed
ARP main studs and head studs
Mahle/Clevite P bearings
Bore the block to whatever it needs to clean up
Torque plate hone cylinders
Deck to .010 piston protrusion
Align hone mains with studs torqued to 225
Gap rings to factory specs
Balance rotating assembly
Bearing clearances to factory spec
Have heads completely checked and rebuilt as necessary

If you can do most of the labor yourself, I would have the machine shop assemble the short block for you and complete the rest of it yourself. Bolting on heads and building from there is pretty straight forward, but it can be labor intensive and requires some special tools to properly build the short block with checking bearing clearances and ring gaps. I would have no worries running that build at 650 hp. If there is still money in the budget, you can get some rods, but LBZ rods will live for a long time at 650 hp with good tuning. If you are in the market for a budget rod, SoCal had something available at one time, but it isn’t on their website. I believe it was about the same money as the wagler rods. The build won’t be bulletproof by any means, but it will do what you want without spending a fortune.

 

[Rancelot211]

Interested in a set of 20 over cut mahle pistons? New in box with rings.