TurboBrake on a stock tune is there any benefit?

[Physiksgeek]

Have done some searching.....no definitive answer that I have found. Which may be my answer. I have added turbo brake to a stock tune to verify vane positioning and that its working. I have by no means fully vetted it and have not done it towing. I have only made a few test rides around the block. I have a stock tranny so my comfort level right now is running a stock tune. I may load a trailer with 4000lbs max occasionally but 99% of the time its a loaded boat at about 3500lbs. The hills and hollers that surround a lot of the lakes I fish make it hard on the brake pads. So, right now I am in love with the concept of a turbo brake and I may be trying to cram a round peg in a square hole.

So the question(s) are, on a stock tune would there be enough benefit without the additional horsepower or should I just stick with the tow/haul button? My reasoning is the rpm's and TCL are not be where they need to be without tow/haul to make the turbo brake effective IMO so I would need to run tow/haul simultaneously to help with that. What about building enough boost to make it effective? Would the gearing/TCl and higher rpm's from tow/haul help that to fall in line? Am I headed down a rabbit hole?

PS - I know I'm taking the mileage hit by not adding HP. I am also starting to come to around to the fact that properly added horsepower makes it easier on the tranny rather than compromising it. But its baby steps still for me....go easy on me

Thanks!

 

[2004LB7]

turbo brake effectiveness will depend highly on the engine rpm. turbo brakes work best if you down shift to bring the rpms up above around 2500 or so and up. so you may find T/H to work better for that. so yes a stock tune can successfully use a turbo brake tune

and added HP won't make it easier on the transmission unless all you did was trade torque for RPMs. to make the transmission last longer than reduce torque. remember HP is made up from torque and rpms so to just say "HP" without specifying how can get you in trouble. you can increase HP by increasing torque or rpms or both but it is the torque that will do the damage

 

[darkness]

Set your vane position to 100% in the rpm range you want in the first 2 rows. There’s a lot of tables you need to modify. If you forget or skip some you’ll know lol. I set mine from 1600rpm on up thru the rpm range. T/H helps because the converter is locked more.

 

[2004LB7]

^^^ I believe there are two tables, desired vane position and maximum vane position.

 

[Yngdmax92]

I set mine for 1700 on my whole dsp5 set up. It's always on, there is no negative to it.

 

[Physiksgeek]

2004LB7 thanks, you are correct and it is noted about using "HP" generically. It is the laymen coming out in me but I get it....it is not helpful for discussion purposes....adds unnecessary clarifying questions or opportunity to miss each other in the back and forth.

Darkness - thanks, that is essentially what I have done. I did only the first row from 12-4800 rpm's in "Desired Boost" which is 0mm^3. I set it to 30 since the most I have seen in edge is 24-25psi. make sure it max's out if it can. I did my boost work in B2204 (EGR off, High Altitude) and copied that to the on/off for high, med, low altitude tables. They are exact duplicates. It is working and appears to be working correctly. At the rpm's I was at though it made no appreciable difference. But i liked it anyways....lol

In table B2210 (desired vane pos, EGR off, high altitude) I did the first two rows (0mm^3 and 5mm^3) at 100% from 12-4800rpm's then like desired boost I copied and pasted to the the Desired EGR on/off, high/med/low tables.

Yngdmax92 thanks, help me understand. You set it just for 1700 rpms or from 1700 and up? Either way, what is the logic behind it? I ask because that's the highest I have seen talked about. Most start at 12 and carry it on through the rpm range.....from what I gather the logic there is to have it engage as much as possible but not in the idle rpm territory......I mean I guess your logic could be the same you just adding a little more cushion?

 

[Physiksgeek]

I hesitate to muddy the waters but kind of along the same line as Darkness's comment about T/H and converter lockup....I have been wondering (but not enough to look at it seriously yet)....is there a way to keep the trans in 5th gear with TCL till i get to say 70+mph and not be in tow haul? It's relates back to keeping up rpm's when not in T/H (because I'm not towing) which in my mind should/could help with building boost at lower speeds coming down the mountain is the reason I ask?

The tables below is what I have quickly glanced at but realized I should stay focused for now. It talks about shift pattern "A" and "B" and so on, they are color coded but there is not a legend I found that indicates which pattern which color is. It may be out there or I may need to look a little deeper to figure them out. I also feel it could be such a specific application that without a DSP switch the ability to implement quickly makes it almost something I never do. So maybe when i get a little more serious I'll dig into it or I'll ask the question in a separate thread. Feel free to disregard. Thanks again!

 

[2004LB7]

the chosen RPM range for turbo brake is really up to you. you can put it all the way from zero rpm up to whatever you want but most choose 1200 to 1700 as the beginning of the 100% vane position as below that there is not enough rpms to create any boost back pressure to be of much use.

for the 5th gear and converter lockup. yes you can do that. just raise the shift point at the throttle position needed to maintain the desired mph until it doesn't shift or lock/unlock as desired. logging the pedal position can help you find that area. sometimes takes a little trial and error to get it just right

 

[Physiksgeek]

So I see it now....the x-axis is TPS%. I looked at the tables cause I had the thought but reaklly thats how little I looked at it.

Silver lining......I just accidentally figured out if I click on the heading for the pattern it highlights the colored line associated with it. Below I have Pattern A and Pattern B highlighted......if it helps someone else flatten the learning curve.






While we are on the topic though.....when I log it should I average a couple points (same mph) within a log or over a couple logs or is a single point sufficient. I ask because "flat land" at 55mph would be different than "up/down a hill" at 55mph? Any pointers on that? I appreciate the info cause I think it could be really beneficial. Maybe not wholesale but definitely as a bonus feature. I'll have to make note of this and circle back to it when I can get to the "tweaking" stage.

 

[2004LB7]

single point log is good enough to get started. then add a few extra mph. if you don't like it on the hills add or remove a few mph till you get it where you like

also, be aware that 4lo and t/h tables are swapped

 

[Physiksgeek]

also, be aware that 4lo and t/h tables are swapped

Uhmmmm......I made up a cuss word when I read that.....that sounds really important........lol! You are saying that these two tables below are in fact swapped?!? Which to me means the table(s) in T/H are 4WD Low tables and the 4WD Low tables are T/H tables. Now I have a 2WD so if I understand you correctly I should do any modifications in the 4WD Low tables that will then be used for my T/H references without me doing anything else? If so.....how was that ever discovered???? Thanks

 

[2004LB7]

Uhmmmm......I made up a cuss word when I read that.....that sounds really important........lol! You are saying that these two tables below are in fact swapped?!? Which to me means the table(s) in T/H are 4WD Low tables and the 4WD Low tables are T/H tables. Now I have a 2WD so if I understand you correctly I should do any modifications in the 4WD Low tables that will then be used for my T/H references without me doing anything else? If so.....how was that ever discovered???? Thanks

View attachment 109605

no, the tables from post #9 and all the others like it. basically pattern B and C are swapped

 

[darkness]

Another note, don’t screw with your shift timing. Just stick to part and full throttle shift points and tcc.

 

[Physiksgeek]

No less interesting but I'm tracking now and duly noted. I googled it and found a single efl live forum post that went three deep. Without wearing you out over it let me ask.....do I need to make corrections to straighten out the tables so they reference correctly? OR......do I just need to adjust the "wrong" labled table to get the right response from the table I need because changing the tables around will then cause the ECM to reference the tune file incorrectly?

Man I'm sorry but this is the reason I have actively pursued the slow approach. This is tribal knowledge....you cant know this without 1. experience with how to check for these nuggets of info or 2. just like what you did.....general conversation about "x" that ends up with an "oh, yeah.....don't forget about y".

 

[darkness]

You could always just error on the side of caution and adjust both tables. Since you’re 2wd you won’t know the difference.

 

[Physiksgeek]

Darkness I agree in this case. That would be a totally harmless solution. The point I was trying to make was had I not been informed, any changes I made would yield no results and lots of confusion about what I was doing.

I appreciate it….I’ll just have to ask more questions on my end to find these nuggets of info. I ain’t in no rush.

 

[2004LB7]

No less interesting but I'm tracking now and duly noted. I googled it and found a single efl live forum post that went three deep. Without wearing you out over it let me ask.....do I need to make corrections to straighten out the tables so they reference correctly? OR......do I just need to adjust the "wrong" labled table to get the right response from the table I need because changing the tables around will then cause the ECM to reference the tune file incorrectly?

Man I'm sorry but this is the reason I have actively pursued the slow approach. This is tribal knowledge....you cant know this without 1. experience with how to check for these nuggets of info or 2. just like what you did.....general conversation about "x" that ends up with an "oh, yeah.....don't forget about y".

you only need to adjust the wrongly labeled table. there is no easy way to fix that error so we've just lived with it. also it may not apply to all OS's so as darkness suggested you can make both the same and not worry

 

[JoshH]

I'm guessing this is on the 06 LBZ in your signature. You can actually wire in an exhaust brake switch like the factory did on the Duramax equipped 4500/5500 Kodiak/Top Kick trucks. When it is switched on, it activates the vanes to function like an exhaust brake and alters transmission down shifting and converter lock to make it more effective.

 

[2004LB7]

I'm guessing this is on the 06 LBZ in your signature. You can actually wire in an exhaust brake switch like the factory did on the Duramax equipped 4500/5500 Kodiak/Top Kick trucks. When it is switched on, it activates the vanes to function like an exhaust brake and alters transmission down shifting and converter lock to make it more effective.

that's right. forgot about that option

 

[Physiksgeek]

JoshH - It is the LBZ.....hard wiring it is an option on the list. I have post favorited with all the part numbers and steps. Before I bought the FlashScan that was exactly what I was going to do. Not having a tune DPS switch I still may only because I think I would like the ability of just turning it on should the need arise. Now that I have flashscan and still no DSP switch.....I gotta plan for it if I only put it in a tune. Kinda the genesis of the thread.....is the "juice worth the squeeze" to have turbo brake at all times in a stock tune? If it is, maybe I just tune it in.

I have not seen info on how it modifies shifting and TCL. Is it out there? Does it just begin to reference the T/H tables when the switch is on?

PS - appreciate the timing calculator work. I got a question on it but I think I can figure it out looking at the formula(s) and what they reference. No where close to that point yet so I have not done my part before I bother you guys with that one.