LLY: totally stupid newbed myself...

duratothemax

<--- slippery roads
Aug 28, 2006
7,139
10
0
Wyoming
Ok so I finally got a chance to look at my truck today.

Many of you read my issue with the EFILive DVT's. So I replaced number THREE injector today and the knock went away and the engine ran perfectly smoothly. But it still smokes. Not half as much as before, but it still smokes.

So I think I have other injectors that are going bad too.

But where I totally screwed myself was when I replaced the #7 and #3 injectors.

When I first diagnosed it, I pulled the #7 injector out, swapped my Big Dipper tip over to a good/used LLY injector body. Put it back in, still knocked and smoked (obviously because I was messing with the wrong injector to begin with due to EFILive DVT's being wrong), so I thought "OK maybe its the tip itself thats bad". So I pulled it out and swapped another completely stock injector (stock tip) in....still knocked. Then I swapped the Big Dipper tip onto another injector, tried that, no change.

But heres where I screwed myself. I forgot which injector went where and which tip was on what injector. This was a couple weeks ago, and I dont remember what the last "swap" I did was when I was working on it while I was stuck up on Vermont. I dont remember which injector body and which tip is in #7. I have 2 other injector bodies that I was swapping tips around as well. I was working in a garage with no light, and no heat, in freezing temperatures, and already mad about how my truck is always breaking...so I wasnt careful and methodical/meticulous/organized like I always am when Im working on this stuff.

So basically I have three injectors sitting in front of me on the bench and I have no idea WTF one is the good one, which one is the bad one, which one has the stock tip and which one has the Big Dipper tips. Go ahead, laugh, I deserve it. :)

I would have thought "duh, this will be easy, just put a known stock injector in and watch balance rates." NOPE. Even with at least 1 stock injector (or maybe 2? Because #7 is the wild card) in, the balance rates are all perfect, +/- 1 or so. All of the balance rates now are fine and it idles smooth with no knock, like I said, but it still smokes, so Im going to swap a whole set of good used stock injectors in and hopefully the smoke will clear up.

BUT that still leaves me with 3 "unknown" injectors. Any ideas? :confused:

I really dont have an extra couple hundred bucks in my pocket right now just to send them out to be tested...

ben
 
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x MadMAX DIESEL

<<<< No Horsepower
Dec 30, 2008
7,535
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Lexington, Ky
I think your only option would be to send them off to be flow tested for the tips. To find which is the back body could you install them and test the return rates?
 

TrentNell

Finally underway !!!!!
Jul 7, 2008
7,543
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slc tuah
Ben I can Gillett Diesel to flow the tips for free ( if not free pretty cheap ) to tell which is which , better to be safe then sorry IMOP.
 
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Slick

New member
Jan 9, 2007
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I would think you would be able to tell which one has extruded holes under magnification fairly easily.
 

juddski88

Freedom Diesel
Jul 1, 2008
4,655
120
63
Chesterfield, Mass.
i also agree ben, the tips should be easily identifiable. as for the nozzles, start with the currently installed injectors and make sure they all have 40% tips on them, verify that everything is as it should be, and use a different position (inj #8) as your test hole. just keep swapping in "unknown" nozzles and logging return rates and visible smoke/audible knock.

Maybe i am thinking bass ackwards but if i read the problem correctly, thats what i would do.
 

RENODMAX

Dead Wrong
Mar 4, 2008
3,602
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Ben everyone newbs themselves. It makes us humble. Good luck my friend let me know if I can ever help. Trent sounds like he's got a good option for you.
 

duratothemax

<--- slippery roads
Aug 28, 2006
7,139
10
0
Wyoming
Well I dont get it. I went to move my truck today to get another truck into the shop and there was no smoke, idled perfectly smooth.

I put it on high idle and let it warm up. Some smoke started to appear after a couple minutes of warming up. I went for a drive and the smoke was pretty heavy. I threw a whole boatload of 'diesel kleen' in the tank, and put some in the new fuel filter I put on. I continued to drive the truck with varying throttle positions and after about half on hour of driving the smoke level started to decrease. After 54 minutes of runtime (according to the tech 2) and the fuel temp getting up to ~100* or so, the smoke was completely gone. And now it runs perfectly, perfect balance rates, zero smoke, etc.

WTF.

I still have that "mystery" injector in #7 though. I dont know whether its a Big Dipper tip or stock tip. #3 body was the one that was causing the big knock and huge smoke. So that one has a new/used body but a Big Dipper tip on it. #7 is the only wild card, because that was the one I was screwing around in and changing all around in a 38* garage with no lights. (because EFILive told me #7 was the bad one, not #3, duh)

In the mean time, IF #7 is actually still a stock tip, it would theoretically be flowing ~40% less than the other injectors. So why wouldnt that show in the balance rates???? The engine runs/idles perfectly smoothely, so I cant see it being "that bad"...I mean how is this any different from running an LB7 with bad [unbalanced] injector(s)??

Ben
 

JoshH

Daggum farm truck
Staff member
Vendor/Sponsor
Feb 14, 2007
13,713
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Texas!!!
Try ramping up rail pressure and raise your idle speed to say 950 (I think the balance rates shut off at 1000), and see if the balance rate goes way off. Increasing rail pressure and fuel going through it should magnify any differences in tips.
 

RENODMAX

Dead Wrong
Mar 4, 2008
3,602
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0
Josh why are you so smart? Ben is it possible that the fuel system was dirty as shit? I know that sounds stupid but what in the world else would cause a varying condition like that?:confused:
 

MMLMM

Tunergeek
Mar 2, 2008
4,086
2
38
43
Reno, NV
www.dyncal.com
magnification or get a good precession scale or find one to use. Compare the tips to known stock ones...

Worth a shot..

Then make sure to mark all 8 tips sometime lol.
 

duratothemax

<--- slippery roads
Aug 28, 2006
7,139
10
0
Wyoming
well I would have never believed it myself, but I cleaned the tips up really well and got a decent magnifying glass out...im 98% positive I could tell the difference and see which one of the group of 4 "mystery" injectors was the big dipper tip. I swapped it out, so now im 98% sure I have all 8 big dipper tips back in my truck. I sent the mystery tips/injectors to Trent though just to have them double checked...thanks Trent. :)

Ben
 

mytmousemalibu

Cut your ride, sissy!
Apr 12, 2008
2,230
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Kansas
:thumb: I was about to say, I could deff see a differance between stock tips and my
50%'ers. Your lucky its not an LB7 right now:rofl: If it was......whew i think i'd actually rip the rest of my hair out while yelling obscenities that could be heard for miles:rofl:
 

duratothemax

<--- slippery roads
Aug 28, 2006
7,139
10
0
Wyoming
:thumb: I was about to say, I could deff see a differance between stock tips and my
50%'ers. Your lucky its not an LB7 right now:rofl: If it was......whew i think i'd actually rip the rest of my hair out while yelling obscenities that could be heard for miles:rofl:

Yeah you're not kidding!

We timed it today, to R&R the #7 injector on an LLY/LBZ (started timing from opening the hood, pulling the wrong injector, and swapping it for a new injector, putting the injector in, tightening all the fuel lines, to starting the engine), was like 4 minutes 37 seconds IIRC. And that was when we were bullshitting the whole time and not really rushing... :p:

The only injectors that would take longer than ~5 minutes to R&R are #1, #2, #4. But even those, probably not more than 10 minutes on my truck. Van thermostat housing FTW. With the standard pickup truck thermostat housing and water neck, you have to drain the coolant and move the water neck in order to change half the injectors on the driver side.

Ben
 

whitetrash21

put on da damn helmet day
Apr 29, 2008
4,929
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36
Vegas
Not too sure how they're numbered, but the front inj on the pass side was a little more than 5 minutes for me. Had to pull the FICM, mounting bracket and supply lines in order to get it out.

You guys know the number sequence on the injectors???