Question: Too much Pin weight?

[gaitherr]

I am looking to buy a 2010 Cyclone 3950 Toy Hauler and the listed trailer weight is 14,050 with a pin weight of 3150. I know that is a bit heavy for my 2500 but I understand that if you add weight to the garage, it reduces the weight on the hitch. We take about 8 trips a year that are about 80 miles and one longer trip every 3 years. Would my truck be able to handle this camper or am I crazy to even consider?

It is not the laws that I am concerned with as much as safety.

Thanks!!!

 

[McRat]

Normally that much trailer is best towed with a dually, but a SRW will do fine.

I'm assuming you're 5th wheel at that pin weight.

Be careful with the setup on a CC/SB, it's easy to tag the cab with the trailer.

I'd run 265/75 E-Rated tires or better due to the higher weight rating (3400lb each?). They will bolt right on with no clearance issues. Run the rears at max pressure.

I'd also look into putting an add-a-leaf or 3500SRW leafs back there and some heavier than stock shocks. Don't waste time with air shocks, they won't do anything.

 

[McRat]

PS - I tow a "conventional" trailer that weighs over 16k laden. Hitch weight is about 2500lb. This works OK with a 3500SRW, and have driven thousands of miles with no issue on 265/75 E-rated tires. The 3500SRW has bigger leaf packs, but is otherwise the same as the 2500HD.

With a conventional trailer, you need to run very stiff equalizer bars to get away with that.

 

[gaitherr]

Hey thanks for the quick answer. Great information and it is really good to know that there isn't that much difference in the 2500SRW v 3500SRW. I wouldn't mind buying new springs and shocks but I am not ready for a dually just yet.

Yes it is a 5th wheel, sorry I should have mentioned that. The tires I have now are stock Bridgestone LT255/70R17 Duravis HD Load E tires. Are the tires you mention better suited? I don't really know that much about tires.

 

[dag4566]

Some airbags and some good tires should handle it fine IMO.

If you want to get super critical you can step up to some 19.5 tires and wheels.

 

[McRat]

Hey thanks for the quick answer. Great information and it is really good to know that there isn't that much difference in the 2500SRW v 3500SRW. I wouldn't mind buying new springs and shocks but I am not ready for a dually just yet.

Yes it is a 5th wheel, sorry I should have mentioned that. The tires I have now are stock Bridgestone LT255/70R17 Duravis HD Load E tires. Are the tires you mention better suited? I don't really know that much about tires.

It's the weight rating that's important.

Your truck unladen is about 2800lb on the rear tires IIRC. Now add 3150 worth of pin weight, and the factory 245's are at their limit of 3042lb each. I don't like running at the limit. Putting 265's on bumps you 800lb more rating.

Not sure about 255/70-17 though. In general, as the rim size goes up for given tire dia, the rating goes down.

The weight rating is printed on the tire in LB and Kg. Find what that is, and decide if it's enough for 6000lb.

 

[McRat]

Warning. The only 255/70-17 tire I found only had about a 2300lb weight rating.

If your tires are only rated at 2300lb a piece, I can guarantee you a blowout eventually. You are at their limit on the fronts unladen.

To all readers: Towing past 10k changes things a lot. You have very little safety margin if you have an equipment failure or an emergency situation. It can be done safely, but you need the right mindset. It's not a good situation for those with limited towing experience. A heavy cross wind combined with uneven pavement in a construction zone gave me an education. I nearly swapped ends going in a straight line towing 16k. Only flooring the throttle and getting all 4 on level ground stopped me from jackknifing.

 

[gaitherr]

Sorry, I fat fingered the tire size, the are 265/70R17
The weight on the tires are 1450k and 3195 lbs then something about 550 and then 80 psi max. I could not make out what the 550 was referring to?

 

[McRat]

You might be OK at 3200lb per tire. I'd feel safer with 3400 a tire. Since you CAN tow that much trailer safely if proper precautions are taken, I would go for it, THEN...

Take your laden/hooked rig to a truck stop scale. This permits you to get individual weights for each axle. If you are close or past that 3200x2 (6400lb) on either truck axle, then make a tire decision. If it's over 6800, not even 265's are really enough. This means people (or sandbags) hitch, water tank filled, toys, etc. You'd be surprised how much crap we often add to the truck right before leaving.

Also be aware that on high quality tires, the weight rating has a lot of safety margin in it. But I can tell you that a blowout in Nowhere, Utah towing on a busy 2-line highway in the rain sucks more than anything Mr. Dyson can invent.

 

[McRat]

I think the 550 is Universal Treadwear Rating? It's a lie that all tire manufacturers put on their tires to impress the peasants. They invented that number to sell tires.

 

[Rhall]

I know ive had some hella pin weight a few times when i had to run my truck and weights on the front of the trailer, i have 285 toyo all terrains and some airbags, it handles it pretty good, never knew how much i weighed loaded, so we stopped and weighed on the way to scheids, with nobody in the haul truck, the gooseneck, all my weights, luggage and 1 golf cart it weight 25K. I really would like to get a dually, as the weights gonna go up this year as ill probably be hauling a polaris ranger also... and i just like duallys.

 

[radvans]

I tow a 5er at your size and weight. Paying air bags really helped as well as new shocks. Made it much more stable. Truck handles the weight with no problems.

 

[gaitherr]

I think we are going to go for it. I do want to add the air bags right away. Does anyone have recommendations for the brand and model that would best fit my situation?

I plan on adding shocks soon and tires a little later but the air bags I think are a must due to the pin weight.

Also, I want to thank all of you guys for the input, this forum is awesome especially for someone new to diesel like myself. If I had the dough I would make my truck a real hot rod, but with the wife and kids eating away at the pocketbook, that will have to wait a while.

 

[McRat]

Firestones worked well for me. I think I sold them though.

I would do shocks at the same time. Increasing the spring rate of the suspension without increasing the dampening can make it "pogo". Bilsteins are pretty good.

 

[Big Block 88]

I have been forced to pull our 48' foot six horse when our LB7 dually was at the doctor with my 2500 CCSB and it did just fine fully loaded, it rolled accross the CAT scales here locally with the dually lkiving quater stocked 250 gallons of water in the tanks 50 gallons of fuel for the generator 6 horses and enuff feed for 2 weeks, we rolled accross at 34,570 which is right at the limit I would pull cross country.

But with my 2500 when I pulled I cut out all un-needed crap to keep weight down minus a little rear end walk on corners it felt stable for me. I would go for it hit up some airbags and bilstien's like Pat said best of luck

On edit: this was a gooseneck not a 5th wheel

 

[gaitherr]

When I buy shocks, do I want front and rear or just front? For that matter is there any suspension work that needs to be done on the front end? And, which Bilstiens should I install? The ones for a 2500 (BE5-6082-H0) or 3500 (BE5-6501-H1) or something other than those?

Also confused about the Firestone Air Bags have a capacity of 5000 lbs, is that going to work for me? Is it like the tire thing where each one is rated separately so the total weight supported would be 10K?

 

[McRat]

Personally, I'd get a whole set of shocks. The factory shocks really aren't that good at max load. You will notice a significant improvement in handling with the Bilsteins, or at I did. The 3500 model is physically different, the dually takes different shock. The 3500SRW uses the 2500HD model.

AFAIK, the Firestones are only one model for the 2500HD, and that's the one you need. IIRC, 5000lb means how much spring rate the set adds to the rear at full pressure. They will be plenty for any load.

 

[Big Block 88]

I would recomend the Bilstien 5100's I am very happy with mine

 

[jevanb]

my friend is a INS agent and if you are over rated with pin or GVWR you will be ticketed by the cops and your ins policy will not cover your loss in a accident, Remember not only do you have the weight of the pin, but you also have to include the weight of the truck too, when reguarding tire loading

 

[Big Block 88]

We were scaled in Col and no ticket was given but my sister was warned she needed a class A CDL to pull that weight and length