T87 Swaps

[kidturbo]

What's the part number on your T87? The problem with using SPS2 is it's on the bench, not in a truck. Somewhere along the line, bench flashing with SPS2 is not possible (without some tomfoolery), but I don't know where that line in the sand is. You might be able to do a 2015 T87 on the bench or you might not. I WAS just able to flash a T42 with a 2007 truck calibration using SPS2, so it seems it' not really SPS2 itself, but something else, possibly related to security and how the modules talk to each other for the security process.

Oh, and the CTZ from my TCM is from a 2016, so while the part number may be the same or compatible, the 2015 had a different OS it seems.

Well I'm pretty good at tomfoolery..

I do have have the matching ECM, BCM, and emobilizer from the same 2016 vehicle. So guessing I could give it a shot that way and see how it responds. Probably looks at BCM for conformation.

Here is the details pulled from this one.




Happy Turkey Day

 

[kidturbo]

Message someone over at efi live see if they can allow it to pass through?

That's also a good option. I know a couple people with the skills to make that happen. I worked through a similar issue some years ago with these E38 units. There is a cross reference list of OS to hardware ID for those units now. EFI actually wouldn't let me load an incompatible OS, but GM tools did. Now I have a fully locked E38 on the bench, which still works, but can't be updated again..

 

[Cougar281]

The ECM, BCM and TCM matched set would quite possibly be all that's needed to fool it and allow SPS2 to program a newer module... except the VIN. I assume your matched set are from a gasser, in which case, it would most likely only program based on the VIN in the modules, which is easy enough to change in the ECM and TCM with EFILive, but the BCM is 'less easy'. But if they were all changed to the VIN of a diesel truck, I imagine that might be all that would be needed.

Edit: yours and mine show the same hardware ID (even though it doesn't match what's printed on the label) and boot block, so I can't imagine a reason they aren't fully interchangeable. If EFILive doesn't read the WHOLE flash, that could be why it won't flash a different OS in.

 

[juddski88]

The ECM, BCM and TCM matched set would quite possibly be all that's needed to fool it and allow SPS2 to program a newer module... except the VIN. I assume your matched set are from a gasser, in which case, it would most likely only program based on the VIN in the modules, which is easy enough to change in the ECM and TCM with EFILive, but the BCM is 'less easy'. But if they were all changed to the VIN of a diesel truck, I imagine that might be all that would be needed.

Efilive as a business, is a joke these days. Best thing we can hope for is a buyout from a young enthusiast.

 

[kidturbo]

There is actually a lot of work happening related to the L5P and 2020+ right now. But yes, they certainly fell behind a good bit on the GM stuff these past few years. And Ross officially retired. Presenting a brain drain. So I to would love to see some new blood come in..

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

[1FastBrick]

I didn't know he retired...

I know they were working with a few others

 

[kidturbo]

Woke up from a long Turkey nap, and decided to clear the gasser stuff on the my bench. But before I did, figured I should hook up the crank/cam emulator, and verify this E38 code ran good with an RPM signal. In the last pic, after 5 1/2hrs, TCM was still looking happy, with no communication related DTC's. Even both ECM and TCM Run Timers were spot on at 20,000 seconds. So is proof of concept that backwards compatible to model year 2004 hardware swaps are possible going forward.







Now adding some wires to this T87 connector to verify the sensor format swap works. Still no luck swapping these hardware OS, but have some feelers out there. Certainly open to all ideas.. Next step, get the E35B and A50 up and running happy on the bench. Then we should have a better idea how this LBZ/LMM T87 swap will go. Confidence is high.

 

[Cougar281]

Nice! My guess is that SPS2 would be able to program a Duramax/Allison calibration in. I just programmed an old T42 that was out of a car of some sort with the calibration for my friend's 07 Silverado, don't recall what make or year it came out of, on the bench using SPS2 to test if it was SPS2 itself that wasn't allowing offboard programming or something more, and it programmed just fine. I'd like to try re-programming the T87A I have out of a 2.0T Camaro with a T87A Duramax/Allison cal, but I don't think I have enough to fool SPS2 into thinking it's in a vehicle and I'm guessing the 2017 will probably fail.

 

[Cougar281]

So I got your care package over the weekend, and I've started building out the pinning chart, but one thing (so far) that stands out as potential problem for any pre-LML truck - the PC Solenoid. That simply didn't exist pre-LML... will we be able to tune it out, or....

 

[kidturbo]

School me please.. What's it do?

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

[pl_silverado]

School me please.. What's it do?

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

It’s an electronic spool valve that controls line pressure.

 

[kidturbo]

Thanks for the clarification. A little reading online shows it's also using calibrated value to match each valve to tcm tune..

Could be bit tricky, or maybe a simple write it out type deal. Will certainly need further review to make this LBZ/LMM compatible.

Spent a few hours tonight on phone with @Cougar281 loading this Allison OS over the Camaro T87 OS. Thanks much for the tech and moral support.. Cause it all came down to a simple firmware loading hack shared with me yesterday. So simple, however the butt pucker factor is pretty high when ya first try it...

Got it loaded, now to get everyone on speaking terms like with the gassers.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

[kidturbo]

After a little digging thru this Allison Tune file, I find a few things missing. First anything related to DTC's not showing in this 2015 version. Was there in the 16 Camaro, but gone now. Second I see nothing relating to that pressure control solenoid listed in this tune. So it's obviously not very important, or EFIlive just missed it..

Anyone on here happen to own a 2015-16 Duramax with T87 TCM, and also EFIlive tools??

If so, I would like to review some data with ya.. Because this OS version seems to be very dumbed down compared to the gasser version I've been playing with. Barely half the pids to see what's doing what. Might be a good thing for ease of swaps, or the main reason the T87A is more popular.. Up in the air until I can compare..

 

[455buick]

After a little digging thru this Allison Tune file, I find a few things missing. First anything related to DTC's not showing in this 2015 version. Was there in the 16 Camaro, but gone now. Second I see nothing relating to that pressure control solenoid listed in this tune. So it's obviously not very important, or EFIlive just missed it..

Anyone on here happen to own a 2015-16 Duramax with T87 TCM, and also EFIlive tools??

If so, I would like to review some data with ya.. Because this OS version seems to be very dumbed down compared to the gasser version I've been playing with. Barely half the pids to see what's doing what. Might be a good thing for ease of swaps, or the main reason the T87A is more popular.. Up in the air until I can compare..

EFIlive didn't have it mapped out. It won't hurt a transmission if it's not functioning, it'll just have maxed line pressure up to the regulator pressure. Something around 235psi, but don't hold me to that. It's no different than people running a dummy solenoid. It might be a problem with the higher line pressure kits though like in built transmissions. There are others that will know more about this than myself though.

 

[gmduramax]

After a little digging thru this Allison Tune file, I find a few things missing. First anything related to DTC's not showing in this 2015 version. Was there in the 16 Camaro, but gone now. Second I see nothing relating to that pressure control solenoid listed in this tune. So it's obviously not very important, or EFIlive just missed it..

Anyone on here happen to own a 2015-16 Duramax with T87 TCM, and also EFIlive tools??

If so, I would like to review some data with ya.. Because this OS version seems to be very dumbed down compared to the gasser version I've been playing with. Barely half the pids to see what's doing what. Might be a good thing for ease of swaps, or the main reason the T87A is more popular.. Up in the air until I can compare..

My friend has a 16 with a T87. I’m going to see him Monday unless you can get what you need sooner

 

[kidturbo]

Thanks for the help on the pressure control valve question. I'm almost thinking it might be better to stick with the 6/8spd gasser version for this LBZ/LMM swap. Just way more control, data feedback, and at least some ability to write out any DTC's we wish to ignore. Plus I know how to make that one communicate happy already. So far I can't clear the U0100 DTC in this version on the bench like I did before. Don't have an LML ECM handy to setup some live comms with. Been hitting up the local car lots today hoping to find one I can data log..

@gmduramax if you get time to plug into one, I'm mostly interested a copy of the OEM tune file for comparison. Along with just what PID's it's able to report. This 2015 version @Cougar281 and I are playing with will barely give ya the time of day. I did a PID verification using EFI V8, and it seriously has like 15 shown... APPS, Engine Runtime, speed sensors, and like a couple mode positions is about it. Won't even tell ya what gear it's in on my copy. We verified both of our TCMs responding the same, with N/A in a majority of fields typically available to the same year gasser version.

 

[gmduramax]

Thanks for the help on the pressure control valve question. I'm almost thinking it might be better to stick with the 6/8spd gasser version for this LBZ/LMM swap. Just way more control, data feedback, and at least some ability to write out any DTC's we wish to ignore. Plus I know how to make that one communicate happy already. So far I can't clear the U0100 DTC in this version on the bench like I did before. Don't have an LML ECM handy to setup some live comms with. Been hitting up the local car lots today hoping to find one I can data log..

@gmduramax if you get time to plug into one, I'm mostly interested a copy of the OEM tune file for comparison. Along with just what PID's it's able to report. This 2015 version @Cougar281 and I are playing with will barely give ya the time of day. I did a PID verification using EFI V8, and it seriously has like 15 shown... APPS, Engine Runtime, speed sensors, and like a couple mode positions is about it. Won't even tell ya what gear it's in on my copy. We verified both of our TCMs responding the same, with N/A in a majority of fields typically available to the same year gasser version.

I have the stock tune read out already with EFI live, but my laptop went for a swim. If I get my info pulled off of it I’ll have that before Monday.

 

[Cougar281]

I don't think we want to use a gasser version for the Allison... two totally different animals. As far as I know, the T87/T87A was ONLY used on 8 and 10 speed gassers. I don't believe there is a such thing as a 6-speed gasser cal for the T87. That, as far as I know, was always a T43. As far as I know, from wha tI've read, the T87/T87A Allison cals were actually written by Allison, for the Allison 1000 6-speed, not the same group that wrote the cals for the 8 and 10 speeds... You also have the critical MCVM Data that is part of the gasser 8 and 10 speed cals that as far as I know doesn't exist for the Allisons... Totally horses of different colors.

Some of the data that's N/A would HAVE to be coming from the ECM, but since there is no ECM (At least on my bench), I could see how/why it would come up N/A. I need to finish my 'half octopus' so I can connect multiple modules (like ECM & TCM) and see how that behaves... I have both a LBZ and LMM ECM here that I can tinker with (also an E39A that's all set up for bench comms and an E80 that I haven't figured out the REAL proper wiring for)... Just don't have the stuff to fool them into thinking they're in a running vehicle lol.

 

[kidturbo]

Yeah comparing between the 87 Allison and gasser files, there is hardly any common tables between these two versions. On the left we have max torque tables from Allison, and the Camaro on the right.



If they did have a six speed gasser version, I'd say might have something to start with. But since we don't have a good roadmap for either of these files, probably a lot more work. But we do however happen have a map for the T87A version.. Yet I can't import to EFIlive to do a side by side review. But making a 6spd file from the 8sp Allison probably not out of the question.

 

[Cougar281]

There wasn't an 8-speed Allison... Was a 6-speed Allison 1000 until they replaced it with the 10L1000….. or am I missing something?