What ring end gap is recommended for forged pistons? I have Ross pistons with total seal standard file to fit rings. I called Ross they told me to call Total Seal, Total Seal said he could not give me a specific gap because diesels have too many variables, boost, nitrous, water meth, etc. This will be a drag truck only, thanks.
ring end gap forged piston
- Thread starter DPC
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Ring end gap should be Top at .009 per inch of bore and second at .008 per in of bore diameter. You cold run it a little tighter say .001 per in or a little looser if you wish. I have the specs from Total Seal that came with my rings but the Total seal tech suggested that I run looser than the card said. Similar boost but .002 tighter cylinder to wall than you have. I probably would not go looser with your piston to wall clearances. I have talk to some that are running at .0075 per inch of bore diameter.
I see a lot of guys on compD in the engine tech section there that say to run real loose for big power. Anyone know why? Heat expansion of a high hp motor?
Heat would be the main reason. It would cause rings to butt under expansion. I would think most of the really loose guys run filled blocks especially Cummins guys. They seem to fill blocks more than Dmax guys.
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Thanks for the info, I have the same card but wasn't sure which category turbo/nitrous diesel would fall under which is why I called total seal. :thumb:
I have heard nothing good about the total seal rings for our application. I Dont know anything about the new Ross pistons, but is there a way for you to use a different top ring? If so, I would.
Total Seal makes multiple ring combinations in multiple material variations as well Tim. I hope no to have any problems but time will tell.
Well then I guess the question now is what rings does he have? He said standard. And I only know them to have broken in several dmax and Cummins motors, and not even under a lot of hp
Rings
I have always run Total Seal rings and have never had a problem. If someone broke a ring I would have to think it was from install or not enough end gap. There really is not a way to brake them otherwise. Don't be scared of running a lot of end gap. I always run .002 MORE on the second ring. It's hard to hurt something when they are loose but I promise you will hurt something if it's tight. It all comes down to heat and how long you have it. Total Seal makes a bunch of rings, many many styles.
I have always run Total Seal rings and have never had a problem. If someone broke a ring I would have to think it was from install or not enough end gap. There really is not a way to brake them otherwise. Don't be scared of running a lot of end gap. I always run .002 MORE on the second ring. It's hard to hurt something when they are loose but I promise you will hurt something if it's tight. It all comes down to heat and how long you have it. Total Seal makes a bunch of rings, many many styles.
He should use either the Hell Fire rings or the stainless gapless from what I understand. What brand do you recommend? Them being so narrow a ring it is strongly advised to use ring pliers for installing onto the piston. More people than not seem to think its okay to do that by hand. I'm not saying they are the best on the market or not. That is subjective and arguable but they have been in business a long time with a pretty good track record. I would agree to reevaluate the particular ring he has and go from there since the standard rings may not hold up well.
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It was the gapless rings I've heard more issues with. But overall I have been told by multiple engine builders to steer clear. There was a local guy who tried their rings in his Cummins with cast pistons and lost a couple of top rings (not gapless). It was a pulling truck. Maybe total seal makes a good ring for a certain application setup a certain way, I wouldn't really know. As for gap, I agree with you Jeff, run it loose. I'm pretty sure I ran .035" on my top ring. Piston to wall was .010" . Mahle forged pistons.
Not sure I understand the important fact at the bottom. Is this referring to the ptw clearance?
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That is referring to the bore being bigger than it was suppose to be. If it is bigger by .001 then the end gap will be bigger than it is suppose to be by .0035 .
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Supposed to be? It's bored .020 over. So for every .001 over 4.075 I need to increase .0035?
No. You multiply total bore by the factor being g used to determine end gap. For instance I have a 4.095" bore and am using .0095 for top ring end gap a .0085 for second ring endgap. So 4.095x.0095 gives you a .039 top gap and 4.095x.0085 gives you a .035 second ring end gap. The oil ring can be between .015 and .060 end gap. This is running Total Seal rings on forged pistons with .008 PTW clearance. Always check with your ring manufacture to see what they suggest per application. That info will vary with each manufacturer.
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