LB7: Need some help...

chiz1

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Dec 26, 2011
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So I just had my motor built, 60% overs, rods, mahl cut and coated pistons, valve springs, keyed everything, welded water pump, studs, girdled, ats dual fuelers, gt3788r with s472 twins, dts intercooler and tuned by kory. I had injector issues to start off with but I believe I got those handled. Balance rates at 30mpa are below 1.

Problem is I have a miss. Not present at idle or at least not detectable thru balance rates and sound of the engine running. There's no pre det so it doesn't seem like an over fueling problem. It gets more pronounced under load and it is all the way thru the rpm range. We did compression tests and those came out fine. We added another ground to the block just in case it was a grounding problem since I relocated the batteries to the frame rail. The only codes it's showing is a low voltage code for the oil pressure sensor and high pressure ac sensor (p00522, p00530). It is present on every tune and doesn't seem to change with any of them. We checked the injector harnesses before we assembled and hooked a volt meter up to check from the ficm plug to the injectors and from the ficm to the ECM. No shorts detected. I towed with it this weekend and going up a steep grade with a 6k pound boat just maintaining speed, it made an almost machine gun like sound at around 2000 rpm. Didn't sound like a fuel knock, more like a starter without enough amperage to turn over and a little quieter. It did the same thing before I had the motor built. The only parts that weren't replaced was the wiring harnesses, the glow plug controller, and the ficm. New crank speed and cam shaft sensors. All the other sensors are off my old engine.

My mechanic is scratching his head at this point and my wallet is begging for mercy. Any ideas on what else to check or what else could be wrong would be greatly appreciated.
 

catman3126

Ehhh?.... You don't say?
Jul 24, 2012
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he said he did a comp test and it was good.

Can you possibly take a video of what is going on and post it on youtube and link it here? that might help us? does it get worse the higher the rpm's go?
 

Duramax One

Vote for Pedro
Aug 11, 2012
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Oroville, CA
If it's done it through 2 motors, it may not be internal to the engine. Speaking of, what engine do you have (LB7, LLY, LBZ, LMM, LML)? It's sounding like it may be an electrical issue, so it would help to know what engine you have.

EDIT: Read through and saw FICM, so that means LB7/LLY

Those 2 codes are indicating that there is a bad sensor ground somewhere in your harness. The sensors ground through their own connector to the block, which may be loose or dirty. If it was just the AC code I'd say it would be an unrelated air conditioning issue, but with 2 sensors having issues with the voltage, the 5V reference is probably fine and it is probably the ground that is the issue. It is possible that your harness got pinched when pulling/installing the motor and destroyed a wire or two. The sensor issues may be unrelated to the problem you're having, but it would be best to get them fixed in case they are.

I recommend pulling the connectors at the sensors and checking to see what kind of resistance they are seeing to ground. It should be 0 or very close to 0 ohms. With the key on, engine off, check for voltage at the sensor connectors referenced to a ground on your block. They are probably 3 wire plugs that will be [ Ground | Sensor Voltage | Reference Voltage] or some variation thereupon. Reference voltage should be a steady 5V or 12V DC (once again, depending on the engine model you have). There will not be power to the "sensor voltage" wire since this is the wire that goes from the sensor to the ECU.

Since this engine has the same noise the old one did, it probably is an issue with either the harness or it may be a bad accessory that is causing the noise. There is a part shared with the new engine that is causing the noise. Once you've checked/fixed the grounds and checked the reference voltages, I would pull your belt and try to reproduce the sound without any accessories turning. Hopefully it makes the noise when stopped because without your power steering pump these trucks suck to steer.

Good luck. I hate these types of problems. They're usually something simple, yet require countless hours to track down.
 
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chiz1

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Dec 26, 2011
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I really appreciate the responses.

I bought all new sensors for the AC just to make sure I wasn't chasing a part problem. My first order of business will be to fix that problem today. i thought the same thing anout pinched wires during installation. ill update progress later today and ill start with checking the grounds on all the sensors. They are all two wire plugs.
It is an 02 lb7 and I'm leaning towards an electrical issue or possible ficm going bad. When I relocated the batteries a year and a half ago and I didn't check the resistance to ground for the longer grounding cable. We just checked it 3 ohms... So we added another grounding cable and ran it to the other side of the block. We have solid ground but I'm thinking maybe the ground resistance did some damage to the ficm?.? Does anyone know if ficms will show signs of failure or do they just stop working.

Again, much gratitude for all the suggestions and input.
 

chiz1

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Dec 26, 2011
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I'm just about to the point of setting this truck on fire and walking away.... I started this build last summer (found a spare motor and sent it off to get built), got the motor back in April, put it in in May and have been chasing problems ever since... I just want to drive this thing and be done with it

Checked the ac high pressure sensor and the coolant level sensor wiring for ground resistance and voltage and they both checked out fine. Still no AC and still reading low coolant. All the sensors are new and are working but still no dice. Checked for continuity all the way to the ECM and that is good too. Pulled the harness that has the Coolant level sensor and runs around the front of the motor all the way to the starter out to check all the grounds for breaks and it was good. Broke the small stud off of the starter :mad: so now I have to replace that before I can start it again and take a video of the miss fire that's really the biggest issue I need to fix.

Does anyone know if a FICM can start to fail and not provide enough voltage to open the Injectors all the way during higher RPMS. The miss starts just after you start to push the pedal and continues all the way thru the RPM range. The FICM and the Wiring harness are the only things I haven't replaced.

The tuner changed the OS in the ECM when he tuned it, could that cause issues if the FICM is working off the original OS or does the FICM even have an OS or does it just turn the signal coming from the ECM into High voltage pulses to the injectors?

The twin setup was on the old motor (472 over stock). The only thing that is new with the air side is the 4788 and the DTS intercooler. The 4788 spools really quick, even with the miss. I'm not really comfortable driving it with the miss because I can feel it and if I can feel it, I'm sure the new bearings in the motor are feeling it too... Don't want to risk hurting the motor.
 

bullfrogjohnson

Big Girl!
Nov 20, 2006
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Couple things.....

Where are you located
Unplug the coolant level sensor and see if the light stays on in the dash
The ficm just converts voltage. It has no o.s.
I've never seen a ficm go bad that didn't show the symptoms at idle also.
Gonna sound stupid, but could it be something in the engine compartment rattling? Downpipe on the bottom of the cab? I've seen the heater core lines rattle against the firewall?
 

JoshH

Daggum farm truck
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Feb 14, 2007
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Low coolant and A/C problem could be the low pressure switch and coolant level sensor plugs swapped. The plugs are the same, and I've seen it happen more than once. Just a thought.

Do you have any logs showing what is happening when it starts missing?
 

chiz1

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Dec 26, 2011
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BFG - you can actually feel the miss during acceleration and then even just maintaining speed. The sound I hear in the exhaust and engine compartment matches the kind of almost chatter in acceleration and It changes with RPM. Trust me, I've been hoping it was just something simple or stupid on my part. And maybe it still is, I just haven't figured it out yet. When I unplug the coolant sensor, it still stays on. I put a jumper in as well and it still stayed on.

JoshH, That was exactly what I thought as soon as I saw the low coolant and the AC wasn't working . That is just the kind of thing I would probably do but the 50/50 this time actually went in the right direction.

I'm still leaning towards a wire being pinched or something of that nature. The miss wasn't there prior to the new motor but the "Starter without enough voltage to crank sound" was there before. It only happens while towing and doesn't happen all the time. When it happens, I am going up a hill and to stop it, I have to let off the throttle. If I roll back into it, it starts again. If I push the throttle down quicker, it will accelerate thru it and not make the sound. When it happens, there is no change in rail pressure showing up on the gauge but it loses power...

I'm replacing the starter today and then I will try and log it.

Thanks again for the reply's! I'll keep you guys posted.
 

chiz1

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Dec 26, 2011
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Well I think we found the problem.... The 02 os uses continuity based sensors, 03 os uses 5 volt reference sensors. The codes we got are 03 codes... I think my os for my Efi live tuning was sent with an 03 os.

We are loading the stock 02 os in the morning and I'll bet my ac works and the codes go away. I'm really hoping this solves the miss problem as well.

Anybody know what other sensors or engine operations would be affected by using the wrong os?
 

THEFERMANATOR

LEGALLY INSANE
Feb 16, 2009
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The sensors didn't change from 02 to 03, and an 01 truck will run just fine on an 04 OS as many have done this. I know somebody with an 02 that has run an 01, 3 different 02 OS's, and an 03 and his truck ran fine with all of them. Have you tried doing an injector kill test yet to narrow down which cylinder is doing it? And were the injectors you're running now on your old engine? Just because you have good balance rates means nothing, balance rates are often wrong and can only help to narrow down the problem.
 

chiz1

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Dec 26, 2011
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The wiring for an 03 is different and the os for 03 and up needs the right wiring to work on some of the sensors. The codes i'm getting aren't listed for the 02 but they showed up in the 03 list. I checked the Efi live site when my mechanic told me it was the os and the tuners on the Efi live forum have posted this issue. For the sensors to work, the latest os you can use ends in 6006. im not a tuner or an expert on the duramaxes by any means but from everything i've been able to find i need the 02 os. The ac high pressure sensor and a few others on an 03 are a three wire sensor, ref voltage (5v), ground, and then signal back to the ECM from what I understand and the wiring diagram the mechanic had. Mine are two wire ad the oil pressure sensor wiring is one. I'm just hoping there are other engine monitoring sensors that are needing the same thing and the 02 os fixes my miss. If not, we will be logging it right after the new os is flashed in.

We did eliminate cylinders using a tech 2 to see if we could narrow it down to chasing out everything associated with that cylinder but turning off any one cylinder just made it worse. So it makes me think/hope its a sensor/os issue and its pulling fuel or something and that's the cause.... An os issue is free, a hard part issue is more$$$ chasing and replacing


Sent from my iPad
 

THEFERMANATOR

LEGALLY INSANE
Feb 16, 2009
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The wiring for an 03 is different and the os for 03 and up needs the right wiring to work on some of the sensors. The codes i'm getting aren't listed for the 02 but they showed up in the 03 list. I checked the Efi live site when my mechanic told me it was the os and the tuners on the Efi live forum have posted this issue. For the sensors to work, the latest os you can use ends in 6006. im not a tuner or an expert on the duramaxes by any means but from everything i've been able to find i need the 02 os. The ac high pressure sensor and a few others on an 03 are a three wire sensor, ref voltage (5v), ground, and then signal back to the ECM from what I understand and the wiring diagram the mechanic had. Mine are two wire ad the oil pressure sensor wiring is one. I'm just hoping there are other engine monitoring sensors that are needing the same thing and the 02 os fixes my miss. If not, we will be logging it right after the new os is flashed in.

We did eliminate cylinders using a tech 2 to see if we could narrow it down to chasing out everything associated with that cylinder but turning off any one cylinder just made it worse. So it makes me think/hope its a sensor/os issue and its pulling fuel or something and that's the cause.... An os issue is free, a hard part issue is more$$$ chasing and replacing


Sent from my iPad

The wiring harness changes have to do with A/C wiring changes, and the change from an oil pressure sending unit to an oil pressure sensor. I have done this OS change with no ill effects. You can try it, and hopefully it works for you. But it will be the first I have heard of it as like I said I have ran the later OS in earlier trucks. As for extra codes the 6006 02 OS seems to have just as many codes in it as the 044 03-04 OS has.
 

chiz1

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Dec 26, 2011
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I'm hoping the 6006 will fix it but I'm open to a newer os if I can get it programmed to get the ac working again... 102-106 here the last couple days.
 

chiz1

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Dec 26, 2011
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Quick update:

So all the issues I was having with the AC, oil pressure, and low coolant were all related to the OS. Changed it to the 6006 and everything worked again. Haven't had a chance to drive it yet so I'm not sure about the miss. Ill drive it and log it and post what we find.
 

chiz1

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Dec 26, 2011
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So here's an update: it's injectors again. The first set was a remanned with 60% over tips (found out when I sent them back they were actually only 50%). One was hung so bad the fuel knock sounded like someone was hitting the block with a hammer. So to hurry the replacement along, I sent in my 20% overs with 10k miles on them in to get "checked" and have them honed out to 60% overs. Came back with a clean bill of health. Put those in..... Knock knock. Thought it was a miss so we went thru everything. Changed ficm, check wiring, changed filter system thinking we may be getting air in the system.... Finally did balance rate tests again thinking there is no way they sent another bad set or didn't check these in detail... 30 mpa, 1 or less. 50mpa, 2 of them shot up to minus 4-5, 100 mpa, same two were at minus 5-6 another one was 4, 150 mpa, the two were minus 7-8 and the third was a minus 4-5. All the others were pretty close to each other. Within 1, can't remember if it was plus or minus. When driving it on a hotter tune, it was puffing black smoke in time with the miss, or misses instead of a constant stream..... Injectors. Fml. This will be the third set. The company I got the injectors from is now going to take the tips off the injectors I sent back and put them on Bosch reman's. I have a laundry list of complaints about the vendors I've been dealing with on this build but until everything is fixed and they have a chance to make it right, I'm going to keep my mouth shut. No matter what happens, I don't think i'll ever get back the money I've had to spend to keep replacing new parts that were bad from the start. But I will share the results on every diesel site I can find about the good and the bad I've been thru with this thing.


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