LBZ: NEED A CRITIQUE on a crazy idea

Nomad_LBZ

Steady Sleepin'
Oct 18, 2015
26
3
3
Lake Charles, LA
New to the forum and new to tuning, I have an LBZ with a DP 2.5 Stage 1 VGT with a TCT wheel in the valley and a BW S400SX-80 ET-R HO Billet wheel with a race housing.

What I am trying to accomplish: Very quick spool up out of my little turbo to get off the line quick without having to powerbrake, also for a snappier take off while just driving. without seriously sacrificing top end power as well.

My concept on how to achieve faster spool-up: I am thinking about sending my valley back to Mark and having him upgrade the vanes and wastegating it. I am hoping for a little quicker spool-up out of the vanes. I am hoping by wastegating my valley turbo I would be able to adjust the tuning for the vanes to have them spool the charger much quicker. Now since this would most likely significantly increase my drive pressure shortly after, having the wastegate on the turbine housing, I could direct the extra pressure back into the pipe feeding my 80mm helping it to spool faster as well.

My concept for not loosing too much top end power: I am assuming that to get my truck to light and respond with the power I want I would need to pull quite a bit of boost out of my little charger meaning I would want to set my wastegate heavier as not to push flow to big charger too soon. If I used a programmable boost controller for my wastegate like the HKS EVC6-IR (regulates boost based on tuning written for throttle position and rpms) I could keep the wastegate closed to achieve a higher boost out of my valley charger, then as the big charger begins to get up and going, have the gate transition so it opens easier allowing for most efficient boost and drive pressure combination.

Additional thoughts/questions: If vane position, torque based fuel, and pedal position based torque are all something that can be adjusted in a specific dsp program, then if my crazy a** theory is possible, wouldn't this be something I could program to be on a single setting such as position 5 on my dsp 5, and a slightly different tune not as aggressive on the low end for my 4th position. The wastegate controller has 3 different postion settings as well which would allow for

Final Thought: It might be completely impossible due to something obvious I'm not paying attention to, but I figure I'd ask to see where the faults in my theory are. Maybe, just maybe there's some sort of way to make this work.
 

mike diesel

I'm alright.
Sep 6, 2012
4,005
0
36
SLC, Utah
I can't imagine you'll really get that 2.5 charger to hit any faster. I'd play with tuning off the bat before going ham and dicking around with a wastegate.
 

Chevy1925

don't know sh!t about IFS
Staff member
Oct 21, 2009
21,638
5,778
113
Phoenix Az
Adding a wastegate won't help off the line snappiness. It will help if your drive pressure is too high when under full boost and the canes can't take care of it
 

Nomad_LBZ

Steady Sleepin'
Oct 18, 2015
26
3
3
Lake Charles, LA
Adding a wastegate won't help off the line snappiness. It will help if your drive pressure is too high when under full boost and the canes can't take care of it

You are absolutely correct, but I was thinking if I ran a tighter vane position at low rpms and held them there to get to full boost quicker it would cause the turbine spin much faster due to increased pressure in the housing eventually causing overspool(correct?), if I wastegated the housing, would it not then take the pressure that would cause overspool and direct it towards my 80mm in-turn helping spool it?
 

Nomad_LBZ

Steady Sleepin'
Oct 18, 2015
26
3
3
Lake Charles, LA
In reference to a supercharger... I have thought about them many times, lol after the price, the constant wine of a belt driven charger isn't appealing for an everyday driver. But I guess I am pretty basically trying to achieve supercharger like response out of a turbo charger while being able to switch it off with a turn of a dsp5 (crazy... I know... so WHY? Just 'cause lol)
 

Chevy1925

don't know sh!t about IFS
Staff member
Oct 21, 2009
21,638
5,778
113
Phoenix Az
You are absolutely correct, but I was thinking if I ran a tighter vane position at low rpms and held them there to get to full boost quicker it would cause the turbine spin much faster due to increased pressure in the housing eventually causing overspool(correct?), if I wastegated the housing, would it not then take the pressure that would cause overspool and direct it towards my 80mm in-turn helping spool it?


Your basically getting rid of the use of your vanes then. You can make the vanes start to open at a certain boost pressure so drive pressure doesn't go too high. Your wastegate still works off boost pressure. opening the wastegate or the vanes will drop drive pressure. You just don't want to go too much or boost will drop.

Think of the vanes as a variable wastegate to a certain extent.
 

Nomad_LBZ

Steady Sleepin'
Oct 18, 2015
26
3
3
Lake Charles, LA
Your basically getting rid of the use of your vanes then. You can make the vanes start to open at a certain boost pressure so drive pressure doesn't go too high. Your wastegate still works off boost pressure. opening the wastegate or the vanes will drop drive pressure. You just don't want to go too much or boost will drop.

Think of the vanes as a variable wastegate to a certain extent.
Didn't think of it like that. I do shoot myself in the foot using a wastegate like that I suppose. In the tuning though, how does one adjust the vanes to open after maximum boost is achieved? I am in the understanding the vanes operate in relation to rpms, and fuel demanded. Is there a direct correlation between vane-pos. and boost somewhere I'm not seeing?
 

bluessmax

Tabasco Injected!
Nov 4, 2010
1,143
6
38
Lake Charles, la
So, here is a test for you to do. To see what the fastest that charger can physically come up. Obviously, we are working under 2400rpm range 90-120mm3 range.

For all test, set max Vane in base file to 100% until 2400rpm then put a limit on the max vane to be say... 30% so we don't overspool it.

Now, take test 1 and make minimum van % until 2200rpm to be 70%.

Test 2 80%

Test 3 90%

Test 4 100%.

This is only from a dead stop... Just trying to lug it or go through gears could potentially over speed the charger, watch boost closely.

Now take your pick from those tests of which one spooled the fastest at what vane% and tweak from there.

The gate will only help you once it's on boost... In calibrations, this is about the only way to test fastest spool settings.

Also- make sure it has the fuel to test with too, make sure MAF is loose enough in scaling to allow it to not be the limiting factor to your test.

Good luck!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Nomad_LBZ

Steady Sleepin'
Oct 18, 2015
26
3
3
Lake Charles, LA
Thinking of where to go once I do figure that out... My understanding is a waste gate is a all-or-none pressure release, would I be able to set the gate to release to prevent overspool in low rpms then have the vanes slowly open to release added pressure as rpms and boost from my big charger come into play?
 

chevyburnout1

Fixing it till it breaks
Aug 25, 2008
2,368
1
38
Berthoud, CO
What converter are you running? I feel like if you just loosened it up you could accomplish a more "spunky" off the line pull being higher in the rpms, without sacrificing any high end power loss.
 

quinton

Active member
Nov 28, 2011
1,883
0
36
Granbury Tx.
What kory said is the best way. When I had my 68 and 72 vgt turbos I loved playing with the vanes to see how quick spool up I could get. Just be careful and stay in the lower Rpms so you don't create high drive pressure and over speed the charger.