Landcruiser conversion

[pats105]

Hey,
I am seriously contemplating about putting a duramax in my landcruiser. I have a few questions still that I need answered. Firstly If I retain the current transfer case I would not have a speedo input into the ecm/pcm. I just want to know if this is going to cause any problems with the Allison transmission? Should I find a donor vehicle with the zf6?

Finally I don't know how I will get the tacho and oil gauges working from the ecm outputs?

Thanks

 

[WVRigrat05]

Someone already has already did a swap in or a ride similar here.

 

[Bread]

Hey,
I am seriously contemplating about putting a duramax in my landcruiser. I have a few questions still that I need answered. Firstly If I retain the current transfer case I would not have a speedo input into the ecm/pcm. I just want to know if this is going to cause any problems with the Allison transmission? Should I find a donor vehicle with the zf6?

Finally I don't know how I will get the tacho and oil gauges working from the ecm outputs?

Thanks

Do it. My neighbor has one and I was torn between it and the Land Rover I ended up going with.

I would ditch the Toyota transfer case and keep the drive train all GM. The Duramax more than doubles the hp and torque of that 6 cycle. The Yota stuff won't handle it for long, especially with big tires. My Dmax was 2wd, and I added an NP241 TC. Use the factory GM speedo stuff.

Lots of built parts available for the axles as you may know. But I'd ditch those as well and put one ton stuff underneath. Cheap, strong, and parts are available all over the US. Even the most disciplined driver will put there foot in it a time or two and that's all the opportunity a Duramax needs to destroy a drivetrain.

Duramax engines/harness' from trucks have outputs to run aftermarket instruments. Or, just fit the Duramax cluster into the Yota. Save yourself the trouble of wiring up all the little warning lamps, indicator lamps, etc.

 

[pats105]

I was thinking of using the GM transfer case, but I will lose the speedo function on the OEM speedo. I did consider installing the GM instrument cluster, but I figure it won't be a good physical fit. But if the cluster fits in well I will definitely use the GM transfer case.

I figure that the diffs and axles will be under more than double the load but I will run them, and this will be the next project once I get the engine conversion complete.

If the cluster does fit I would somehow have to get it to give a km/h reading to be road legal.

It would be nice if there is a service that could take the Toyota cluster and make it compatible with the duramax's computer.

 

[Bread]

I was thinking of using the GM transfer case, but I will lose the speedo function on the OEM speedo. I did consider installing the GM instrument cluster, but I figure it won't be a good physical fit. But if the cluster fits in well I will definitely use the GM transfer case.

All GM is going to be easier. I don't even know if an adapter is available to mate the Yota case to an Allison. It's going to cost you a fortune to have one custom made, so that alone is reason enough for me to say go all GM components.

The GM speedo can be programmed to read correct for whatever tire size/gear ratio you want to run. You're going to need the ECM reprogrammed to have the engine run stand alone so that type of programming is included. And you can run aftermarket gauges off the GM harness if the GM instruments won't work for you. I don't think anybody on this forum would know how to make the Yota instruments work with the GM harness. You'll just have to do a bunch of research and see if you can make it happen.

I'm using the entire GM harness, instruments, and installing the GM OBD2 port under the dash. That way when I, or my state emissions department plugs in they only see GM.

I figure that the diffs and axles will be under more than double the load but I will run them, and this will be the next project once I get the engine conversion complete.

I was actually doing the same thing to be honest. Get it running as stage one, then upgrade running gear. But for me the LR's extreme offset axles are just too different from the Dana axles I will end up using. I'd have to change all my driveline angles and buy new drivelines twice if I did that, so I'm extending the project to include the axles all at once. Cost wise it makes more sense to do it once when you know upgrade is imminent.

If the cluster does fit I would somehow have to get it to give a km/h reading to be road legal.

I'm sure you can swap in a Canadian cluster.

It would be nice if there is a service that could take the Toyota cluster and make it compatible with the duramax's computer.

I'm sure you could find somebody to do it for you if you have the money. It would take hours of research. Who knows. Keep researching and you might find something. It's would be a sweet project, but it's going to take a lot of legwork on your part. I've seen one started in Australia, but never finished.

 

[pats105]

All of the duramax conversions to the Nissan patrols I have heard of use a transfer case adapter. That was what got me thinking about using the original transfer case. The problem I see if I use the gm cluster is that I will have to wire in all the turn signals headlights etc.

I am not sure what you mean that the ecm will have to be re programmed to run stand alone. Getting the cluster working I can see for me is going to be the hardest part of the conversion.

This is why I considered for the time being a transfer case adaptor as the easiest road to go down. However if I do this I will not have a speed input into the ecm/pcm which could or could not cause issues with the operation of the Allison transmission. These are the things I don't know.

Here is a link to some photos of a converted land cruiser the same model as mine.
http://piddiesel.com/2014/03/12/customer-profile-rod-lawrence-toyota-landcruiser-105-series-solid-front-axle/

 

[bluessmax]

All GM is going to be easier. I don't even know if an adapter is available to mate the Yota case to an Allison. It's going to cost you a fortune to have one custom made, so that alone is reason enough for me to say go all GM components.

The GM speedo can be programmed to read correct for whatever tire size/gear ratio you want to run. You're going to need the ECM reprogrammed to have the engine run stand alone so that type of programming is included. And you can run aftermarket gauges off the GM harness if the GM instruments won't work for you. I don't think anybody on this forum would know how to make the Yota instruments work with the GM harness. You'll just have to do a bunch of research and see if you can make it happen.

I'm using the entire GM harness, instruments, and installing the GM OBD2 port under the dash. That way when I, or my state emissions department plugs in they only see GM.




I was actually doing the same thing to be honest. Get it running as stage one, then upgrade running gear. But for me the LR's extreme offset axles are just too different from the Dana axles I will end up using. I'd have to change all my driveline angles and buy new drivelines twice if I did that, so I'm extending the project to include the axles all at once. Cost wise it makes more sense to do it once when you know upgrade is imminent.



I'm sure you can swap in a Canadian cluster.



I'm sure you could find somebody to do it for you if you have the money. It would take hours of research. Who knows. Keep researching and you might find something. It's would be a sweet project, but it's going to take a lot of legwork on your part. I've seen one started in Australia, but never finished.

I will see if there is potential access to this with ECM programming, but my initial thought is that the voltage curve would have to be scaled via BCM to that of the yota specs... In which I (nor anyone I know) is quite capable of doing that. I could be totally wrong, but that is my first though.

 

[Bread]

All of the duramax conversions to the Nissan patrols I have heard of use a transfer case adapter. That was what got me thinking about using the original transfer case. The problem I see if I use the gm cluster is that I will have to wire in all the turn signals headlights etc.

I am not sure what you mean that the ecm will have to be re programmed to run stand alone. Getting the cluster working I can see for me is going to be the hardest part of the conversion.

This is why I considered for the time being a transfer case adaptor as the easiest road to go down. However if I do this I will not have a speed input into the ecm/pcm which could or could not cause issues with the operation of the Allison transmission. These are the things I don't know.

Here is a link to some photos of a converted land cruiser the same model as mine.
http://piddiesel.com/2014/03/12/customer-profile-rod-lawrence-toyota-landcruiser-105-series-solid-front-axle/

Well there you go. Website says they have a kit. Done!

 

[pats105]

I will see if there is potential access to this with ECM programming, but my initial thought is that the voltage curve would have to be scaled via BCM to that of the yota specs... In which I (nor anyone I know) is quite capable of doing that. I could be totally wrong, but that is my first though.

That would be great if you could let me know.

I am aware that there is a conversion kit but this is only for things like engine mounts and the transfer case adapter. I have managed to find a Nissan patrol with what looks like a chev cluster in it(I could be wrong but it certainty looks different to the stock patrol cluster). However I did a bit more research (looking at his other videos) and found that the owner is still using the original transfer case, so I have no idea how they have made it all work so well. Here is a link to the video I found.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nPoEB7X-LE

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Which generation of engine are considering going with? I know on my LB7 it puts out a standard 4000 pulse per mile output. I believe most TOYOTA electric clusters use a 2000 pulse per mile signal. If you go with an auto, you MUST retain some sort of output speed sensor reading to the TCM and ECM. Even if you go with a ZF6 your going to want a speed sensor input to the ECM as it will keep the ECM happier. With a 4X4 you will also have to keep in mind where you put your output speed sensor for the TCM input. If you go with an LBZ/4L80E combo the output speed sensor MUST be left in the rear of the trans BEFORE the transfer case(unless you can find somebody willing to delve into the T42 programming and enable the 4X4 input to make it work in the transfer case output). If you go with an ALLISON you can either add the speed sensor in before the transfer case in the adapter housing and add a tone ring to the output shaft, OR go with the stock location in the transfer case output shaft. If you go this route though you NEED to stay with a transfer case with the GM 2.72:1 low range ratio. The settings are in the TCM to change the transfer case ratio, but it has been tested and found not to work correctly in reverse when you change them and you lose reverse in the ALLISON.

Also DAKOTA DIGITAL makes a wide range of adapter control boxes to modify speed signals to make them work in swap vehicles.

There are ALOT of questions you need to ask before you dive into this swap. And getting a game plan worked out ahead of time will make your swap go ALOT easier.

 

[Bread]

I am aware that there is a conversion kit but this is only for things like engine mounts and the transfer case adapter.

I'm confused. Have you even contacted them to ask what they suggest??? You're going to need their hard parts, and I'm sure they'd be happy to divulge related types of info rather than having us theorize about what it may or may not take to get the electronics linked up.

 

[pats105]

Which generation of engine are considering going with? I know on my LB7 it puts out a standard 4000 pulse per mile output. I believe most TOYOTA electric clusters use a 2000 pulse per mile signal. If you go with an auto, you MUST retain some sort of output speed sensor reading to the TCM and ECM. Even if you go with a ZF6 your going to want a speed sensor input to the ECM as it will keep the ECM happier. With a 4X4 you will also have to keep in mind where you put your output speed sensor for the TCM input. If you go with an LBZ/4L80E combo the output speed sensor MUST be left in the rear of the trans BEFORE the transfer case(unless you can find somebody willing to delve into the T42 programming and enable the 4X4 input to make it work in the transfer case output). If you go with an ALLISON you can either add the speed sensor in before the transfer case in the adapter housing and add a tone ring to the output shaft, OR go with the stock location in the transfer case output shaft. If you go this route though you NEED to stay with a transfer case with the GM 2.72:1 low range ratio. The settings are in the TCM to change the transfer case ratio, but it has been tested and found not to work correctly in reverse when you change them and you lose reverse in the ALLISON.

Also DAKOTA DIGITAL makes a wide range of adapter control boxes to modify speed signals to make them work in swap vehicles.

There are ALOT of questions you need to ask before you dive into this swap. And getting a game plan worked out ahead of time will make your swap go ALOT easier.

Thank you for the detailed response. That is interesting to know about the transfer case. I will stick with the gm transfer case then. Basically if the cluster physically fits I could use the gm cluster and to get the indicators and headlights etc working on the cluster I could use the original toyota system and essentially splice into the wires using them as signal wires so that I could get a fully functional cluster.
The other option would be to entirely swap the gm loom over and change the associated connectors so they will plug into the factory toyota switches. Although I would have to retain the original Toyota airbag circuit. This would be alot more work but I don't mind that. I don't plan on this project being a simple or quick swap, I see it as a project. Are there any major issues anyone can see with the above two methods?

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Thank you for the detailed response. That is interesting to know about the transfer case. I will stick with the gm transfer case then. Basically if the cluster physically fits I could use the gm cluster and to get the indicators and headlights etc working on the cluster I could use the original toyota system and essentially splice into the wires using them as signal wires so that I could get a fully functional cluster.
The other option would be to entirely swap the gm loom over and change the associated connectors so they will plug into the factory toyota switches. Although I would have to retain the original Toyota airbag circuit. This would be alot more work but I don't mind that. I don't plan on this project being a simple or quick swap, I see it as a project. Are there any major issues anyone can see with the above two methods?

I have an LB7 in my 95 SUBURBAN, and I'm not using the DURAMAX cluster in it with no ill effects. The only thing I lost is the DIC, but other than that I see no problems with not running the DURAMAX cluster.

 

[pats105]

I have an LB7 in my 95 SUBURBAN, and I'm not using the DURAMAX cluster in it with no ill effects. The only thing I lost is the DIC, but other than that I see no problems with not running the DURAMAX cluster.

That's good to know, does anyone know if the turn signals are LED in the cluster. The factory Toyota has bulbs. I was looking at the wiring diagram and got me thinking I could just disconnect the pins for the turn signal etc bulbs from the Toyota and insert them into the relevant pins for the Silverado cluster.

Provide there is no special functioning to the turn signal lights in the cluster (ie; voltage regulators), they should operate fine off any 12 volt source.

I am currently considering going with the LBZ model duramax.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

The turn signals are bulbs, not LED's in a GM cluster.

 

[pats105]

Cool. I would have to use a compatible fuel tank sender unit also for both my main and sub tank.

 

[pats105]

Ok So i have been doing a little bit more research and unfortunately the transfer case output from the chev is on the wrong side. So I will have to stick with the stock transfer case for the time being.

In terms of using the standard transfer case I presume I can used the sensors already installed on the case. Then form what I can tell I chase down the wires for the speed signal and 4 hi low, and wire them into the ecu. Then adjust the gear ratio on the ecu.

Is there anything more to it than this. I can't find much on swapping out transfer cases. I don't know how well the land cruiser transfer case is going to handle the torque though.

Also apparently the stock cluster can be made to work with the Duramax ecu outputs.

 

[Bread]

Ok So i have been doing a little bit more research and unfortunately the transfer case output from the chev is on the wrong side. So I will have to stick with the stock transfer case for the time being.

In terms of using the standard transfer case I presume I can used the sensors already installed on the case. Then form what I can tell I chase down the wires for the speed signal and 4 hi low, and wire them into the ecu. Then adjust the gear ratio on the ecu.

Is there anything more to it than this. I can't find much on swapping out transfer cases. I don't know how well the land cruiser transfer case is going to handle the torque though.

Also apparently the stock cluster can be made to work with the Duramax ecu outputs.

The factory transfer case will be too long for a Landcruiser anyways. It's a slip yoke only. You'll need a case with a fixed rear output to have enough room for a rear driveshaft.

From about 1988 to 1991 GM used a passenger side drop NP241c transfer case. It bolts to the 4L85 with a factory adapter, but not sure what kind of adapter you'll need to mate it to the Allison's 29 spline output shaft.

The early cases used mechanical speedo, and the late used the 2 prong electronic with a 40 tooth reluctor ring. You'll be using the speedo on the trans anyways so don't worry about which model. But again, not sure what is required to bolt it to the Allison. Of course, you'll need an adapter to mount the LT230 TC to the Allison anyways.

 

[pats105]

The NP421c, sounds like a good substitute.

I have found an adapter to the transfer case of the land cruiser(From the allison). In the adapter a speed sensor is used to go to the ecm, the toyota speed sensor on the rear of the transfer case is then used to drive the cruiser speedo. Would this mean the Allison will have problems shifting when put into 4X4 lo? How could this be rectified?

Also in regards to making the tach work on the cruiser cluster (it's looking easier now to maintain the cruiser cluster) I have found a commercial converter, for all tach types. Its called a Dakota Digital Tach adapter.

Cheers

 

[heathgu]

Hi Pat,

The Allison will never know it is in 4 LOW. The speed sensor is before the transfer case. Not many people use low when they have a duramax anyway.

Cheers Heath