It's Alive - Banks Marine Engine in the Dyno Cell

jbarker@bankspower

<Worlds 2nd Fastest Dmax
Mar 24, 2008
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From our Friday Night News section. This is the prototype of our Duramax based twin turbo marine engine. Enjoy:D
http://www.bankspower.com/fridaynightnews/show/7-Its-Alive---Banks-Marine-Engine-in-the-Dyno-Cel

It's Alive - Banks Marine Engine in the Dyno CelSeptember 25, 2009


By the time you read this, both dyno room and on-the-water testing will be underway on the new Banks marine turbo-diesel being developed for high performance, sport and possible defense industry use. But how did this powerful V-8 monster spring to life? Here's the inside story.
FNN_marine1.jpg

Ask any engineer and they'll tell you. Building a mega-horsepower, high-revving turbo diesel for a blast down the quarter-mile or a Bonneville run that lasts a few seconds is no easy task. Now imagine building an engine that delivers amazingly high performance full-bore, pedal to the metal, for two hours straight and longer-on the water! It's the kind of thing that gives most engineers recurring nightmares and spells of vertigo. That is, of course, unless they work at Banks Power.

Yes, the Banks crew is at it again.

You could say all the heavy lifting happened when they built their world's fastest and quickest diesel pro-stock Sidewinder drag truck. After all, you don't go from 0 to 180 mph in 7.72 seconds without learning a thing or two about extracting maximum performance with rapid throttle response. Plus the reliability you gain when you're setting new records each time you turn up the wick and make another pass down the ¼ mile. These are factors which are both extremely important for marine applications. You could say the heavy lifting was done, but you'd be wrong. Because while virtually every engine system developed for the Sidewinder drag truck has found its way onto the test engine currently being assembled, they all had to be re-designed and re-engineered for the unique demands of marine use.

FNN_marine2.jpg


It all began with a stock Duramax 6.6 liter, single turbo diesel. With the excitement and enthusiasm of kids unwrapping a new Christmas present, the Banks crew first stripped it to pieces, and then rebuilt it inside and out with modified pistons, stronger rods, a higher-volume oil pump, and fitted it with twin-turbos and a shiny Banks-red intake plenum. Fun. But they were just getting started. Each and every component was examined and many replaced with a newly designed and engineered piece. If the stock part wasn't up to the job, or right for marine use, stronger materials were utilized and different geometries were developed using CAD until all doubts about reliability were satisfied.

When you're going to torture an engine by running it at max power for hours on end, you better make sure the cooling and lubrication systems are up to snuff. Especially in a boat where no matter what kind of crazy power you are pumping out, engine compartment temps have to be kept at a minimum for safety reasons. That's where Banks Power's Computer Flow Dynamics analysis comes in. Newly prototyped heat exchangers, exhaust manifold water jackets and even the specially modified piston cooling jets were tested until they achieved the best flow numbers possible under the most grueling conditions.

There are definitely good things and bad things about converting an engine designed to run on land for on-the-water use. The good news is that when it comes to cooling there is plenty of the wet stuff around. This "marinized" engine uses turbocharged air that is cooled through a seawater-powered heat exchanger and therefore much more efficient at delivering oxygen-rich powerful air to the combustion chamber than its land-based air-to-air intercooler counterpart. The bad news is that being around all that moisture makes for some heavy-duty corrosion. This meant that completely new ducting and plumbing systems had to be engineered with materials that wouldn't rust.

FNN_marine3.jpg


So what other technologies developed for the drag truck made their way into Banks new marine turbo diesel? The custom fuel injectors were used to meet the flow requirements of a high-powered engine. As was the CAN-enabled engine control computer with the calibration numbers tweaked to balance performance and endurance.

Have their been any teething problems? A few. But considering that there are so many new components and systems in this engine, it's all good news so far. Every day the Banks crew inches closer to their goal-a turbo-marine diesel that delivers 550-plus horsepower for exhausting time periods and make every diesel or gas-powered boat enthusiast drool. Fortunately, with plenty of water around, there's a good chance their wives and girlfriends won't notice the socially-incorrect behavior.
 
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Redbone

but this one goes to 11
May 1, 2008
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Indy, IN
Not to hijack the thread, but whatever became of the Sidewinder Dragster? Haven't heard a peep since about May when it was spitting Liberty trans parts during testing.
 
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fast03

Active member
Jun 15, 2008
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The motor I am sure will be awesome. Banks does a excellent job engineering their projects. I would have no qualms repowering with a Marine Duramax Banks built. Congrats Banks
 

THEFERMANATOR

LEGALLY INSANE
Feb 16, 2009
3,890
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ZEPHYRHILLS, FL
What kind of HP numbers are you getting with it now? I know ther is a company here in BRADENTON FL that was doing a few, but they had an OBSCENE price tag on them for a 400HP bobtail version. You could have bought the new CUMMINS 5.9L for less than they wanted for theres. Don't know if they're still building them or not.
 

SteveFord

What's Next?
May 8, 2008
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Iowa
Being a boat owner myself I'd love to drop 2 dmaxes in place of the gassers in my boat but whats the cost of this setup? Also being your not going to spin these most likely to 4800-5300 rpms have you guys found a prop setup that gives you great top end but dosen't spin the prop on take off or comming up to plane? I'd think all that torque getting the setup right would take some time and alot of testing.
 

duratothemax

<--- slippery roads
Aug 28, 2006
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Wyoming
Being a boat owner myself I'd love to drop 2 dmaxes in place of the gassers in my boat but whats the cost of this setup?

if you have to ask...... :D

knowing banks, I dont doubt its all top-quality stuff, and Im sure the engine will run awesome.......but its gonna be way to expensive for 99.10% of real world applications.

Ill be really surprised if they even sell 2 of them.

ben
 

Diesel Pilot

Hat? Suitcase? 50 BMG?
Aug 9, 2006
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Pickerington, OH
One thing about these Marine engine conversions of the Duramax that has me wondering.

The Duramax has been out for 9 years and none of the major marine engine manufactures has jumped on the platform yet. :confused:

I have to wonder if Mercuiser, Crusader, etc. know something about the engine that we don't and they are reluctant to put it into a marine application. Or it could be that they are just under contract still with Cummins or other diesel engine suppliers and can't go with the Duramax. Maybe the supply of engines is just limited.
 

THEFERMANATOR

LEGALLY INSANE
Feb 16, 2009
3,890
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The big problem is the size of the engine. In this size class most people will go with the 496 big block or a 383 small block. The CUMMINS 5.9L is already putting out 480HP and is proven itself. YANMAR, STEYR, VOLVO, VW, and a few others are also putting out small lightweight diesels in this size class and already have a market share in it. Most boat owners want to go with proven engines, so until the DMAX can be produced in large enough quantities to get out there and prove itself, it will be a tough market to crack. Not to mention the fact that I believe you can get the 480HP 5.9L CUMMINS for right around $30K with a proven engine, warranty, dealer netweork, and high parts availability. It's not an impossibility, but will be tough to get a market share in this climate right now.
 

1lowdiesel

<- wish i was there
Sep 18, 2008
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$60 grand for the 500+ hp version. little less for the stock HP version. they are all LBZs.

i had a cust ask last week about one and i had to call. when i called the cust back and told him the price i had to make sure he was sitting down first:rolleyes:
 

McRat

Diesel Hotrodder
Aug 2, 2006
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Norco CA
www.mcratracing.com
Yes, PPE has made marine Dmax retrofits, as has DPR.

I think the reason you don't see marine apps yet from the majors, is because of the lack of factory support. Cummins, Yanmar, Volvo, actively work to assist or develop marine apps, I'm not sure that GM is on the same page.

It's kind of like the LS1. A very well proven engine, superior to the SBC in every way, but has not been embraced by boat mfrs yet. Heck, boat mfr's didn't even embrace fuel injection for the longest time.
 

duramaximizer

#1 Abuse Enabler ;)
May 4, 2008
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Edgerton, Ohio
Seriously? All of that work to sustain 500hp in a boat. I guess I am ignorant, but I figured it would be a walk in the park. I thought all of the stock engine compontents would work for 500hp. Port the heads, add a turbo or 2, add an oil to water cooler, water to water cooler and an air to water intercooler. The hardest part would be the manifolds..... but 60k.... for 500 hp. I think I'll just tune my pickup truck. If I had an infinate amount of cold water to keep it cool, I would run my truck wide open for hours on end.

BTW what is the expected life span in hours before a rebuild.
 

SteveFord

What's Next?
May 8, 2008
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Iowa
Wow didn't see the estimated cost for that thing. For boats like mine and bigger top speed is what most guys are after and not to have it take to long to get up on plane or blow through the prop. Maybe in a big cabin crusier these will be more of an idea to have but for a power boat wanting to run 70mph plus these wont work right without a ton of work and testing. Would be cool though blowing by guys sitting there and all they hear are the twins screaming.
 

keith2500hd

MOTORKILLER
Jul 20, 2008
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Burlington,iowa
gm was trying to get mercruiser to pickup dmax prior to banks. mercury did not want to invest $, sales of cummins/vm-motori engines fill most boaters wanting diesel. most people like to compare HP, but diesels always do more with a lower HP rating then gas engines. follow what PPE has done and efilive to tune on couple engines, best option. gm has marine division that puts together engines for mfgr's, who adjust package and some tuning, gm has not offered LSx engines due to cost, fuel injection adds $ to package and emissions requirements require cats, that leads to a requirement for fuel injection and computer controls.
 
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