LBZ: HELP: Can't get camshaft out of block

[DURAMXD]

Am I doing something wrong? I cannot for the life of me get the cam out of the block. The whole block is empty except the cam, I have the two retainer bolts behind the gear out. It has the two piece cam gear and I took the tension off by putting a bolt through the front into the back gear. Still won't budge. Am I missing something? I don't have a service manual for the motor because it's newer than mine.

So nothing is left out, I bought the engine with a rod knock. Tore it apart and found a rod bearing that is basically worn to the point it is gone. All the main bearings are scarred. The cam turns but feels like it has some scarring in the bearings too. All the pushrods were bent and it looks like it started to shear the cam pin off. Not sure which came first. I don't think this is keeping it from coming out, but I want to make sure I give the whole scenario.

Thanks for the help in advance, I've lurked and used the forum for information for a long time. This is the first time I've not been able to find my answers through search.

 

[jneal]

It sounds like you know what your doing but i'll ask anyway. Are the lifters out of it?

If they are, it should come right out. Unless it spun a cam bearing.

 

[DURAMXD]

I'm open to any suggestions I missed right now, so ask away on the obvious ones. But yes, the lifters are out.

Everything I have read says they come right out and use cam gear to pull it out, but the thing will absolutely not budge. The cam still spins pretty easily, it just has some slight drag like the bearings are scarred.

I tapped on the back of the cam lightly trying to get it to budge, it will open up the gap between the cam gear and the block a little (about 1/32") but when I turn the cam it goes back and closes the gap back up. It makes me think that something is still holding tension on it, but I can't figure it out.

 

[jneal]

Is the crankshaft still in it? If so, I've had them where sometimes the cam gear even though you have the bolt in, will still catch on the crank gear when your trying to remove it. You can still move the rear section of the cam gear cause there is play in the hole you have the bolt in. There is a hole in the cam gear you can place a screwdriver or punch in and get the teeth on the front and rear section of the cam gear to line up perfectly and it should come right out. If the crankshaft is not in it, you have issues.

I've only ran into this twice where the cam will no come out easily with everything removed from the block. One was a spun cam bearing and I had to drive the cam out with a hammer and found that the reason the bearing spun was because the block was cracked at the oil feed holes to the cam bearing. Second time was the cam was bent after a catastropic engine failure.

 

[DURAMXD]

Crankshaft is not in. Whole block is empty except cam and cam gear. The teeth on the front gear and back gear are not perfectly lined up, but very close. Could this be the problem?

If it has spun a cam bearing, then the cam would be locked up and not able to spin, right? I really don't want to hammer the thing out and tear something up, I was hoping the block was still good. The first thing that came to mind when it wouldn't come out was that the cam was bent, but I didn't know if that was a possibility. I don't know what caused which first, but all 16 pushrods were bent and it spun a rod bearing bad enough that it wore into the crank journals. Pretty sure the crank is trashed, not sure what the max you can turn the journals are, but the lip is visible so I'm sure that is too much.

 

[jneal]

It might just be the picture, but #2 cam journal looks awful black. The engine looks like it had a lack of lube issue. Every bearing surface in those pics look horrible. If the 2 bolts are out of the cam retainer then I'd say you have a spun cam bearing. On the one I had that spun a cam bearing you could still rotate the cam by hand, it just wouldn't come out. If I had to guess the timeline of failure went something like this. 1st lack of lube happened. 2nd bearings began to fail. 3rd cam bearing spun shearing off the cam pin. 4th all the valves meet pistons and bent the pushtubes and the engine died.

Take the cam gear off the cam and see if the cam will come out the back some.

 

[DURAMXD]

All the bearing surfaces look awful. It definitely lost lubrication and/or had some metal going through the motor for a while (probably the rod bearing material).

Suggestions on taking off the cam gear from the cam? It won't slide off easily, I tried, not sure if it is because the pin started to shear and jam up. Can I put a normal 3 jaw puller around the outside of the cam gear and pull it against the cam? Or maybe a 2 jaw with the jaws pointing outwards on the two inner holes for the retaining bolts? I just don't want to tear anything more up.

BTW, thanks for the all the help. This is seriously frustrating the shit out of me.

 

[TheBac]

From the looks of the rest of the motor, I think the cam was probably starting to wear-in its bearings, and probably developed a lip on one or more. You may have to use some sort of puller to get it out.

ON EDIT: Treed. :rofl:

 

[DURAMXD]

Suggestions on the right type of puller to use? I've got a normal 3 jaw that I normally use for harmonic balancers, etc. I've also got a two jaw that is used for pilot bearings and stuff like that.

I'm willing to get the right tools to do it if I need them, just need to know what they are.

 

[jneal]

To get the cam gear off the cam. Easiest thing to do is thread the cam gear bolt in a few threads and hit the bolt with a dead blow hammer. The cam will move out the back and cam gear will fall out. Putting and puller on it, depending how bad it's stuck can damage the gear if pulling from the outer diameter. Dead blow hammer and the bolt won't hurt anythng.

 

[DURAMXD]

Leave the bolt in the hole between the two gears to keep them lined up while I do it?

 

[jneal]

Yeah, leave it in. Otherwise the gear assembly fall apart.

 

[DURAMXD]

I'm smacking the crap out of this thing and it isn't even budging. Now what?

 

[jneal]

Get a bigger hammer. The cam's toast, it's spun a bearing and it's welded it's self to the cam. Your gonna have to beat the cam towards the rear of the block. Once the cam journals are visable find the cam bearing thats stuck to the cam and cut the bearing off the camshaft and then remove the camshaft.

 

[DURAMXD]

At this point, I don't care about saving the cam, I'm just worried about trashing the block hammering the cam out with the bearings welded to it.

I just noticed what looks like either a casting mark or a crack around the cam bearing area in the block on the #2 cap. Kind of hard to get a picture of it, to the left of the cam in the picture. I'm really hoping the block isn't trashed.

 

[RKTMech]

Did you try to beat it out the front from the back yet, you mentioned light tapping, but it appears the block is the only thing really worth saving here.

 

[DURAMXD]

I hit it some yesterday from the back, but I didn't get aggressive with it like I just did the front. I was using the handle end of a mallet through my engine stand on the back of the cam, then hitting the head of the mallet with another dead blow. I'll have to try something similar and just beat on it harder now that I know I'm not missing something and that it is just stuck.

 

[Evan@InglewoodTrans]

I don't see how your going to salvage the block if a cam bearing is spun.

 

[DURAMXD]

That's kind of what I'm wondering at this point. I'm going to try to find a 3-5 lb mini sledge and see if that will move the cam. If not, I'm going to call the machine shop tomorrow and see what they say.

Thought I was going to make some decent money parting this thing out, but a lot of the parts look like they are going to end up in the scrap heap.