Engine wont start - no fuel pressure

[mick]

I have a couple of fittings that are the same thread as the nipples on the fuel rail and a little steel ball that goes in it to block off fittings. I got them with my dual CP3 setup so I could take the second CP3 off line in the event that it had a problem. I think you should be able to source some fittings somewhere and a check ball as well.

Ive got quite a few old injector lines here Josh - wont be a problem blocking them off - thanks

 

[mick]

Why not just pull the glow plugs and unplug the FICM and crank the motor. If you have a hung injector the fuel will be coming out of the glow plug hole.

Thanks Travis - Ill try both ideas one at a time and see how it goes

 

[mick]

Beat me to it. X2 on the pulling the glow plugs. If your injectors have been sitting for awhile, the old fuel in them can gum them up as there is lots of bacteria in diesel fuel.

Thanks Dale. Im thinking you may be on the right track there as these injectors have been lying on the shelf for about 5 months now which could be the cause

 

[sweetdiesel]

I have a couple of fittings that are the same thread as the nipples on the fuel rail and a little steel ball that goes in it to block off fittings. I got them with my dual CP3 setup so I could take the second CP3 off line in the event that it had a problem. I think you should be able to source some fittings somewhere and a check ball as well.

I had to special order that fitting,How come you got them with your cp3?

Why not just pull the glow plugs and unplug the FICM and crank the motor. If you have a hung injector the fuel will be coming out of the glow plug hole.

X2

So mick your rail is 4000ish at crank? or is it higher? Or is the rail sensor giving faulty readings?

Sorry just trying to understand I know i started abby with a regulator with no guts in it making it max out to the 160 mpa area on start up
We pulled the glow plugs and they where all wet with fuel ,but it did start

Maybe the RP sensor needs to read to determine proper starting? Can you hook it up of even give it a reading with some voltage?

Also as Pat allready said the ppe cp3 might be confused,Is your ground and power good on it?

 

[sweetdiesel]

Thanks Dale. Im thinking you may be on the right track there as these injectors have been lying on the shelf for about 5 months now which could be the cause

Mick,Johnboy had this same problom

pulling those plugs will tell alot I hope you get it figured out,Im sure it is something simple



Um as far as the relucter plate,you just installed your old one?Did you check where it is compared to TDC or does that even matter?

 

[LBZ]

I don't think it matters Simon, as long as it has the same amount of teeth as the one that came off of it.

 

[sweetdiesel]

I just removed the new 10 Hole MDE Injectors and put the stock ones back in as there was one dud one and another half dud one that have been giving nothing but trouble since day one with this new motor, at the same time I took off the upper Valve Covers and replaced them with ones off my old engine as the builder didnt put the baffles in under the breather outlets and it was pumping oil out of the breathers. I had to remove and put back a bit of the wiring etc. I thought it might have been the Camshaft Sensor wiring that we modified when we first had problems starting the new engine. The codes kept coming up with cam Sensor. It was only after we mutilated the wiring to the sensor that we found out the builder left the Reluctor Plate off the end of the Camshaft. I pulled the front cover off and used the Reluctor Plate off my old engine. It has been running since then but he injectors have been crap.

Now the engine cranks but will not start. I put efi on and watch the screen as Im logging it and cranking it over and see the commanded fuel pressure is 5000 something while the actual is around 190-230. There is fuel at he cp3 and I can hear it humming with the key on. There is no air at the fuel filter at all. Anybody have any ideas?

190-230 mpa? If so that is wrong,You need to check the cp3 wires or reg
can you tap on the regulator and make sure its not just stuck?

 

[sweetdiesel]

I don't think it matters Simon, as long as it has the same amount of teeth as the one that came off of it.

I think it would/can make a difference in your timing Dale??? Maybe not enough to matter.......I dunno


If Micks fuel pressure is way high it wont want to start and timing ,I dont think timing should matter enough,It may be just getting to much fuel.

Glowplugs will show that, I would think anyways

 

[LBZ]

Well maybe if there is a big gap on the reluctor wheel that it uses as a reference to indicate TDC, you could be right Simon.

 

[JOHNBOY]

Pull all the glow plugs out. Remove the Injection fuse from the main fuse box. If you have a hung needle you will see it.
[YOUTUBE]3LoPLqhxKBM[/YOUTUBE]

If you switched tips only I have bad news. You most likely got some debris in the tip and it has caused the needle to stick partially open. If that has happened the needle and seat are now junk. The other thing that might have happened is the little spring spacer could have fallen out. That places no preload on the needle. Either way you need to figure out which injector is goofed than go from there. If you have a hung injector it will not show up in the fuel return test.

 

[JOHNBOY]

Off the wall question. Where is your ECM? Is it covered like it should be? If it is touching something metalic that might be the problem The housing must not be grounded. If it is all kids of weird stuff happen.

 

[Mike]

I think it would/can make a difference in your timing Dale??? Maybe not enough to matter.......I dunno


If Micks fuel pressure is way high it wont want to start and timing ,I dont think timing should matter enough,It may be just getting to much fuel.

Glowplugs will show that, I would think anyways

Simon, his pressure is 190psi to 220psi.

 

[Mike]

He swapped a body of one injector for one which came with the mde 10 hole injector.

Just maybe he did get some trash in it?

 

[S Phinney]

The cranking actual fuel pressure you are seeing is in line. The problem is not the cranking pressure. Those pressures are usually in the lower 200's. It has got to be debris in the nozzles or an electrical connection problem.

 

[Tinker Brat]

When you swap tips, there is a very small shim that can get lost or mis-seated. Look for Pat's nozzle swap tutorial on this board.

 

[Mike]

The cranking actual fuel pressure you are seeing is in line. The problem is not the cranking pressure. Those pressures are usually in the lower 200's. It has got to be debris in the nozzles or an electrical connection problem.

Then I wonder why mine would turn and develop 3 to 4000 psi before it would start? Or not start at all till the pressure sensor was plugged in? and also, I didn't get a code either? Strange.

 

[LBZ]

My theory:
you will need 3 to 4000 psi before it will start because likely the fuel won't get atomized well enough to start before that. It would be more of a dribble then a mist likely. It could be something programmed into the ecm to not allow it to open the injectors until it gets to that preset minimum pressure of atomization to prevent washing the cylinder walls, overfueling on start-up, etc. IF you have a hung injector, even though the ecm has not started opening injectors, it will still flow fuel-just like Johnboy's video proves.

As far as codes, I have very rarely seen any codes appear when cranking any engine. Only after it has started do the codes generally appear-even if it dies shortly after sometimes you won't get a code. I think it is an ecm boot up thing maybe.

Just my thoughts.....

 

[Bluemax]

Off the wall question. Where is your ECM? Is it covered like it should be? If it is touching something metalic that might be the problem The housing must not be grounded. If it is all kids of weird stuff happen.

Sorry to butt in with an off topic question guys but what kind of stuff will happen if it gets grounded John?

 

[JoshH]

I had to special order that fitting,How come you got them with your cp3?

Cause the guy that built my dual CP3 kit is the MAN!

 

[mick]

Mick,Johnboy had this same problom

pulling those plugs will tell alot I hope you get it figured out,Im sure it is something simple



Um as far as the relucter plate,you just installed your old one?Did you check where it is compared to TDC or does that even matter?

Reluctor Plate can only go on one way because of the offcentre layout of the bolts Simon